Commanders by Power Level [EDH Tier List]

Commander / EDH* thegigibeast

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IronBlackZepp says... #1

What are the best decks against narset. This guy yelled at me last night when I told him that I didnt think she was the best commander. Now I am tempted to build a deck to destroy narset because its funny! I have seen his deck lose to meren before because of sac engines, but I was wondering if there was a better way to do it.

November 24, 2016 6:51 a.m.

Reveur says... #2

IronBlackZepp

First time I beat Narset really hard was with Tasigur. But I think you can do it with any Tier 1 Commander, but it's a always a question of money that you can invest. Derevi Prision, Ad/Doomsday Zur, Animar,Boonweaver Karador, Foodchain Tazri, Jeleva Storm - this decks in the hand of a good pilot are real beast's that you can't compare to Narset.

November 24, 2016 9:14 a.m.

enpc says... #3

IronBlackZepp: Just build a Zur the Enchanter deck and run Nevermore naming Narset. Then just spend the game keeping Nevermore alive.

November 24, 2016 9:21 a.m.

Lilbrudder says... #4

enpc: That is so dirty. I love it :-)

November 24, 2016 9:40 a.m.

Lilbrudder says... #5

On a related note Toxic Deluge and Council's Judgment are solid includes that take out narset without making your deck too silver bullet-esque. Like any commander centric strategy, kill her a couple times and your nemesis will effectively be taxed out of the game. Zur is the easiest commander to win against narset without being close to fully optimized. Hes just so incredibly powerful

November 24, 2016 9:53 a.m.

Arvail says... #6

The problem with Narset is that in order to gain tons of value from her, you need to run the best spells to play for free. We're talking Time Stretch and the like. Those, however, tend to suck ass when they're stuck in your hand. They also do very little in terms of interacting with your opponents. Every Narset deck wants to include cards that pull in different directions. For maximum value, they need to be run into at proper times. In addition, the deck relies heavily on Narset. You deal with her, you deal with the deck. Either race to combo out underneath her clock (T1 and T2 can do this pretty well) or shut her down. She becomes expensive as fuck after a while.

Best answers:

Those are general enough to be included in decks often without issue. Other answers exist too, but those are specific.

November 24, 2016 10:34 a.m.

tw0handt0uch says... #7

Any UBx ad naus deck should pummel Narset. Option 1 id to race them: Narset is usually landing turn 4 and swinging on 5. Option 2 is to just counter her - shes not going to be playing much counter protection bc it whiffs on her attack trigger. Option c is deluge.

November 24, 2016 11:13 a.m.

IronBlackZepp says... #8

Sounds good guys! I tried to argue that storm could keep up but he got even more angry and said that nothing could keep up with narset lol. I think he is probably salty that he spent so much on a deck that is past its prime.

November 24, 2016 1:45 p.m.

Arvail says... #9

Narset just gets a lot of flak at mid- and low-level play. When she goes off, it's painful to have to sit there and wait for her to maybe end the game. On occasion, she does wiff on that third turn or something and the play resumes. There's really no reason to scoop in most cases. Still, it's annoying to sit there and wait for someone to finish magisturbating to see if they can finish the game. That's the source of a lot of frustration. Coupled with Hexproof, she often feels terrible to play against for a large majority of poorly built decks.

November 24, 2016 1:56 p.m.

IronBlackZepp says... #10

Thats why I never want to play her. I think people play her to punk casual tables. the only low level decks that seem to keep up are graveyard based decks that use boardwipes and edics.

November 24, 2016 3:31 p.m.

Arvail says... #11

Well, I mean, I've Narset get hosed by three green decks that produced 4/4s by turn 4. You don't always have the cards required to make combat safe for her and that one swing you get off might not mean much if she dies in the process. The moment Narset can't make use of her ability, her deck starts sucking hardcore.

November 24, 2016 3:41 p.m.

Wee_Dragonaut says... #12

I keep on wondering why Lavinia of the Tenth is only Tier 4. In addition to having good colors, she shuts down much of the upper tier's good tech, such as mana rocks and the commanders themselves. If paired with ETB effects, such as Conjurer's Closet, and a decent amount of counterspells, I bet she could be a decent enough stax general to get out of Tier 4. Anyone else agree with me?

November 25, 2016 3:09 p.m.

Ohthenoises says... #13

So what you're suggesting is basically Brago lite.

Literally almost the same deck style, I could see it but the whole time playing it I'd be thinking "if only this were brago"

Better than tier 4 garbage for sure but then you have to consider the meta, it's only tier 3 when you are playing against tier 1-2 decks but there are too many timmies in the tier 3 range that wouldn't get touched.

In the tier 3 meta she's tier 4 because she doesn't do anything, in the tier 1-2 meta she's tier 3 due to the cards she can interact with.

Does that make sense? I don't feel like I explained it well.

November 25, 2016 3:14 p.m.

thewyzman says... #14

If anyone wants to talk Grixis, I'd love to get some feedback on my Sedris, the Traitor King deck, built for winning in a multiplayer meta... He That Betrays

November 25, 2016 4:37 p.m.

thewyzman says... #15

Piggybacking off TheDevicer, there's a Narset player in my meta, and she struggled big against three archetypes: Mill, Green (both fatty-based and tokens), and Chaos (Possibility Storm-based strategies)

November 25, 2016 4:42 p.m.

RivenEsq says... #16

Well Narset is obviously a bit glassy (I've made my list more resilient since the mulligan change, but she is still high-Tier 2 at best). High Tier 2 is very strong, but that still puts, arguably, 15 or so decks ahead of her and it is really only about consistency.

I think that she is highly underrated since falling from grace after the mulligan change. Her decklists are no longer 1) Stuff extra turns 2) stuff fast mana and haste outlets 3) partial away all the extra turns/combats 4) win

This makes it obviously harder to run her because she is no longer a face roll deck and you have to change some of the other packages with her in order to plan for playing through disruption, going off a turn later, and being able to disrupt those that are now more likely to go off before you do. There are far more meta calls to make when building the deck and most of them transition her into this awkward combo deck that relies on control elements to not just lose against decks that are consistently faster. This doesn't mean she can't pull out the occasional T1-3 wins, but she is more often than not be T4-5 for goldfishing.

As for that individual who says nothing can keep up with Narset, it is that kind of jackassery that makes her widely thought of as a T2 deck or a deck that is just run by douchebags who want to stomp casual tables. He thinks that he can just netdeck a glass cannon list and expect to vomit his hand and then his deck onto the table. It's mindless and requires very little effort to play that kind of deck and the player that runs that in a non-competitive game gives Narset decks a bad name. She is "low hanging fruit" when it comes to players wanting to "build a competitive combo deck" to play against a non-competitive table because you just fill the deck with the standard value spells, swing, and flip your way to victory. These players aren't facing much disruption or removal like a Narset player would be in a competitive game so it's seen as a more than a little non-interactive.

I have a lot of fun playing the deck in a competitive setting as it is more challenging to pilot than most combo-decks under Vancouver mulls because you are waving a red flag as soon as you sit down. In a casual setting, however, it is an absolute snoozefest and I really have little to no respect for someone that plays combo Narset in a non-competitive setting and then has the audacity to slam their dick on the table about it.

November 25, 2016 6:18 p.m.

Ohthenoises says... #17

Narset is why I love playing Azami

November 25, 2016 7:21 p.m.

Wee_Dragonaut says... #18

Thanks Ohthenoises!

In addition, as I was browsing through the T3 list, I don't think Hazezon Tamar belongs in T3. He (or they, or it) is expensive, has the worst color combination for a three color deck, and has a relatively irrelevant ability. Hazezon Tamar is not T5 bad, but he probably deserves to be bumped down to T4 in my opinion.

November 25, 2016 8:07 p.m.

HarroHunter says... #19

Wee_Dragonaut As a Hazezon Tamar player I won't comment on where I think he should be ranked, however, I do think you're underestimating him. He's in very good colors for tokens, and often times doesn't need to even rely on combat to kill the table. He has access to Purphoros, God of the Forge, Impact Tremors, and other similar effects and a good number of tutors to get them. Also I think a pseudo-Avenger of Zendikar effect in the command zone is more powerful than you're giving it credit for. Like I said I won't say what tier he should go in but I will say that he's far from unplayable.

November 25, 2016 10:17 p.m.

thebighoof says... #20

Are there any tier 1 or tier 2 generals that does not involve infinite combos or stax?

November 25, 2016 10:40 p.m.

Ohthenoises says... #21

I mean you can do yisan without combos usually

November 25, 2016 10:59 p.m.

thebighoof says... #22

Ah thank you. Any links to a good yisan decklist that does not use combos as a primary tool to win? All of the ones i have seen emphasizes his combo-riffic power...

November 25, 2016 11:08 p.m.

Ohthenoises says... #23

I mean the only real combos it uses is umbral mantle + something that taps for 4

Some use selvala + gog + sabertooth.

Any of those you can just remove a part or just not combo in the case of selvala.

Most of the wins just come from activating Yisan twice per turn and getting to hoof for game.

November 25, 2016 11:14 p.m.

Lilbrudder says... #24

Isn't hoof essentially a combo card though? It is essentially an "I win button" in creature form. I know most people mean infinite combos but Notion Thief + Winds of Change will win the game almost as often as an infinite combo.

November 25, 2016 11:30 p.m.

Ohthenoises says... #25

I mean you can also just hard cast him

November 25, 2016 11:31 p.m.

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