@NarejED

Yeah lol. Thanks for taking your time to answer me in both places!

What does everybody think is the best partner combination that does not involve infinite combos? I am making a commander deck for a friend and I am interested in everybody's opinion.

Wee_Dragonaut I play in a meta that favors very large games (7-12 players) and I like Vial Smasher the Fierce coupled with Thrasios, Triton Hero, this combination replaced Rosheen Meanderer which is an old favorite of mine, the deck plays rather controllingly and wins by giving vial smasher infect and shooting players with large fireball like effects and thrasios serves to smooth over major inconsistencies. I have played in a couple 8 player games with the deck so far and its loads of fun but obviously not competitive.

My first thought with vial smasher was infinite turns. I like the infect idea though

ok so we were trying to get t3 lists but trying to cut from azusa is impossible. Too much recursion here so any help would be appreciated. Some adds would help too if it makes the deck more optimized. here's the list: Your best friend. More cantrips and recursion is still in the sideboard. Thanks all.

I think Selvala, Heart of the Wilds needs to be tier 2. I recently lost to a Selvala list that won turn 3 with no mana rocks out. The dude also had room in his deck for cards like Natural State and Nature's Claim, which he used in another game to pop my Phyrexian Revoker (naming his commander) before comboing off turn 4. I don't have his list, but that shit was blazing fast. I beat him one game but only because he didn't have an answer for my turn 3 Linvala with an open forest+Yavimaya Hollow.

Also another guy at my LGS is playing a Breya list that's winning more often than losing (and in one case tied) against a Tazri Food Chain, and even once won through a Stony Silence. I'm thinking that Breya is going to need to move toward tier 1 soon...

p0megranates What combo is the Breya player using? I'm building paper Breya and am looking for a replacement to bomberman due to how expensive led is.

I know it's a bit slower but I've been loving the consistency from the Ashnod's Altar/Mana Echoes/Krark-Clan Ironworks + Nim Deathmantle/Eldrazi Displacer combos. Each piece synergizes with the other and having 3:2 combo pieces that you can mix and match is silly as hell. My personal list is intentionally built as a 7/10 on the spike scale but it's goldfishing SUPER well.

Where in the tier list does a fine tuned super friends deck place? How does this strategy compare?

I'd say superfriends lists tend to fall in tier 4. Having lots of walkers tends to clog up your curve and they have very poor synergies. At their best, superfriends decks will activate multiple abilities per turn, but having all this add up to something isn't exactly guaranteed.

(as always correct me if I'm inexperienced)

Really low, probably tier 4. Superfriends is slow, has no easy wins, needs a lot of different cards to synergize correctly, and gets destroyed by combo, stax, and some midrange decks like Yisan. Superfriends isn't that competitive.

@Ohthenoises

Do you have a list for the Breya combo you mentioned? I'm really interested in non-dragon/bomberman Breya. Any idea how well it matches up against other top tier decks?

I was in a pod last Friday that had a super friends player. I was on Leovold Doomsday, other two were on Teferi and Mizzex, all tier 1 lists. My friend on super friends forgot his Zur deck.

We were all so focused on each other, and didn't respect the walkers (except if they were about to ult), that he managed to sneak in a doubling season while all our shields were down, double ult Sorin, Solemn Visitor with rings of bright hearth, and then ulted tamiyo, moon sage the next turn.

I couldn't keep leovold on the table to lock people out, mizzex couldn't keep his general out long enough to build experience counters up. Eventually he drew Narset and we all had to team up on superfriends to keep it off the board with counters, until we finally got rid of the doubling season; had to have someone bounce it when someone else wheeled cuz of tamiyo ult.

Eventually I just went for a doomsday but mizzex blue sun'd me with lab man on the stack. They then proceeded to lose very quickly to the walker menace.

So while I agree that superfriends is tier 3 or 4, it can absolutely be a threat in a tier 1 pod. You can't waste resources on it early or someone else will combo off, and by the time they start ulting you might have already lost the game.

What I expected to be a 20 minute game ended up taking over an hour and a half. Was quite a lot of fun, tbh.

It sounds like you forgot to pack your Fated Retribution, just don't let it happen again. Lol

Fated Retribution that cards played???

Thanks for the tips guys

One Thopter, Two Thopter, Three Thopter, Floor

The answer to your question TCGonline is poorly, mine was designed as a 7/10 build for my meta.

Even so my list is still very much WIP, I'm missing Pia and Kiran and Purph for example

@Blackshadow415 The only time that card has ever hit a table is against a Progenitus super-friends deck.

@HarroHunter: Uses 3 combos: Isochron+Dramatic Reverser, Salvagers+LED, and Worldgorger. I'd say he does the Worldgorger combo most often.

ooh is no one packing In Garruk's Wake and Planar Cleansing? In all seriousness, I feel like superfriends should be one of the comparitors for t3. I has strong potential but it is not fast enough on its own. Any thoughts?

XD Extreme times call for extreme measures

There's a problem with the list that we need to come to a consensus on. This is really important for moving forward. I'll jump straight to it: Where do we stand on placing generals just based on color identity?

Take for example Oloro. He's a mediocre general. Oloro draws cards and is okay in grindy games. He can help for bigger Ad Nauseams, but that's pretty much it. Pretty much every player would agree that Zur is better in general (ha). However, since Esper is a pretty good color combination, Oloro decks are still pretty strong. Despite this, pretty much every Oloro deck will benefit by cutting a few cards that benefit from Oloro and throwing in a Detention Sphere or two. This deck will be almost always better.

Are we basing the list off of the most optimized list, considering the general? Using the Oloro v. Zur example, if we're considering the general, an Oloro deck probably isn't optimized at all. However, are we basing it off of the best deck you can build for the general, then Oloro will probably be around tier 2-3.

The problem with method 1 is that lots of otherwise decent generals such as Oloro will be stuck in tiers 3-5. However, the problem with method 2 is that all the crappy BUG generals like Vorosh will still be in tier 2, because their color combinations let them run a bunch of broken Ad Nauseam-esque cards and still run away with a bunch of games, without casting their general at all.

Honestly, I have no clue what should be done. Both of the methods lead to pretty bad outcomes and are not very feasible. I'd like to hear other peoples' opinions on this problem, and when we reach a consensus, I'll edit and post my stuff about tier 3 organization.

i personally don't believe that breya is strong enough to be tier two. i would suggest tier 3.

@Wombatz: That's such a silly thing to say. If you think that, then you're not playing against a good Breya list or good pilots thereof.

She's just as fast as other combo decks with a couple added benefits including that she's immune to lots of non-artifact-specific hatebears and she's one of a few combo decks that can win straight through an Ethersworn Canonist. She can hit cards that ostensibly hate her out like Angel of Jubilation and Hushwing Gryff by sacrificing non-creature artifacts and -4/-4ing them. she can also hit decks that rely on their commanders like Brago, King Eternal, Yisan, the Wanderer Bard and Zur the Enchanter. I rarely see it, but the fact that it's there is a big deal. At my group, the Breya player is currently winning more than the Tazri Food Chain player.

There's a question of whether she's Tier 2 or Tier 1, but suggesting that she's Tier 3 is unquestionably silly.