my suggestions for bans may not be taken seriously, i dont mind.

bans: cataclysmic gearhulk (phasing is still in the format so this isnt really an equillibrium)

unban: we're fine.

Nothing recent has really broken the format entirely. Many cards have power, yes, but they all are balanced in a way. (leo and breya might have hit a boarderline but they're fine)

I don't see anything really changing other than maybe, and I mean maybe, they ban Leovold.

I could see Leo getting banned. He makes games legitimately unfun for opponents (this isn't salt, I'm fine with Leo but....) and that's the type of thing the rules committee usually tries to squash out when it happens.

Why is Rashmi in tier 2?

I was building a Leo deck, stopped, thought about it, and realized I needed friends to play magic with. I can see Leo getting banned.

Leovald probably needs a ban, he is as oppressive if not more oppressive than Braids since you never have a hand from turn 3-4 onward. Braids you can at least try to come back from, but there is no chance against leovald. Possibly the most broken commander to date.

Leovold probably needs a ban yeah. He just does too much well; denies your opponent card advantage, gains you card advantage, and gives you access to the three strongest colors (in general) for EDH. There are few commanders I would consider refusing to play against, he is one. I don't mind losing but there has to be some fun in the game you know?

Also, maybe we will see Primeval Titan unbanned one day soon. I still don't understand why he is banned given the relative power of the format and neither does anybody I play with. And this is from somebody who wouldn't benefit from it being unbanned at all; I stick to White, Boros, and Azorius as a rule. I just don't see any reason for it to be banned still.

PaladinRyan: Prime Time was banned becasue he was format warping. While not a combo piece, the value that he generated was so much so that every green deck ran him and every non-green deck ran ways specifically to clone / steal him. The card bascially became the Sol Ring of non-sol ring cards.

By that logic we should also ban Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, and other high value cards that are considered auto includes. Being used in almost every deck that can run it should not get a card banned, only being powerful to the point of hurting the integrity of the format should be. Otherwise we have a lot of banning to do. And these days his value, while good and all, is hardly game breaking anyway.

I mean, green does run it's fair share of Azusas, Oracle of Mul Dyas, Explorations, and a lot of other ramp that is probably scarier.

The thing is though that every player has access to Sol Ring and Mana Crypt. The same isn't true with Primeval Titan. Not to menation the ability to pull any two lands from your deck into play every turn is super powerful. Not only does it ramp like crazy plus it helps to fix draws.

viperfang4: it's not the same comparison. Oracle of Mul Daya is the closest but still nowhere near as good. This is a consistent 2 lands each turn into play ontop of your land drop for the turn. One Primeval Titan trigger is Cabal Coffers + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. It's overwhelming value.

If you want to see how stupid he is, then unban him in your playgroup for a while.

I would be overjoyed if they unbanned primetime, but he is pretty scary and format warping. Grabbing stuff like Cabal Coffers + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth or Dark Depths + Thespian's Stage or Gaea's Cradle + Deserted Temple can put the game out of reach pretty damn fast edpecially at casual tables.

As for the banning of Leovold, I am indifferent. While he does help keep storm and fast combo decks in check and is fairly balanced in competitive environments, he ruins casual tables. I will add the fear of him probably has encouraged alot of casuals to step up thier removal package, which I feel makes the format better, since pubstomp generals face more resistance than they have ever had to deal with before. It is very Survival of the Fittest esque. The predator makes the prey stronger.

Call me crazy but none of the land pairs you listed really bother me that much; there is normally better stuff people are aiming to do in even a semi-competitive meta like the one I play in. Plus if you really want to do stuff like that, there are plenty of easy ways to do so (land searching in an Azusa deck for example). I get that prime time is a powerful effect on a stick, I really do, but in general it is a threat that I don't see as all that dangerous to the format. Just my opinion (and the general opinion of my local group to be fair) so I don't claim it to be objective fact that it should unbanned, just that I feel it should be.

2017 banlist changes? Sheldon tends to only ban things that are almost universally complained about by casuals, as the format is geared towards casual play. Currently no cards are anywhere close to reaching that threshold of whining to be considered for banning.

For unbans, I could see a few things coming off like Coalition Victory and Gifts Ungiven, but I wouldn't hold my breath. The banlist isn't logical, so logical things like consistency can't be expected.

My god I would love gifts so hard

NarejED you hit the nail on the head, the banlist isn't logical. It really is shaped more by casual kitchen table meta than anything. It normally isn't TOO much of an issue but it certainly does raise questions at times and I certainly disagree with it in some cases. It is what it is though and this is why house rules are a thing.

I still want to try one day with my meta NO banlist optimized lists and see if that changes anything (proxy friendly as we dont all have p9 lying around, ante allowed casually). Anyone else for trying that change and seeing if there's a difference.

Panoptic Mirror could honestly come off the list without throwing cEDH into chaos, but casuals would hate it.

Sway of the Stars could probably come off the banlist, too. It seems hard to abuse in casual decks.

I do not see any unbans happening. A lot of the marginal things on the ban list are there because they're oppressive at casual tables, e.g. Courser of Kruphix.

I can see Leovold, Emissary of Trest getting banned. Again, oppressive at casual tables. I'd be a little sad; he's an interesting card that shifts the format a bit away from combo decks and cEDH could use more things like that.

chaosumbreon87 no banlist including p9? I think you'll lose maybe two times to a turn 1 Lotus+more rocks+Tolarian Academy+Windfall+"oh cool just drew into my combo" before you scrap that idea.

Woops, meant Prophet of Kruphix...

I dont know. Everyone has access to the p9 so its not as overpowered as one might first think. Yes games might accelerate but power is still even (ante anyone?) Might be worth at least a trial game, possibly. Idk.

Nah mate. Getting hit up by an insanely fast start feels awful when you haven't even drawn your first card. You need to have some degree of counterplay in MtG.

It may have just been out odds since game was fairly balanced despite faster starts

No-banlist EDH was tested a bit in the cEDH community and was decided to be a terrible idea. Allowing the Moxen forces nearly every deck to 4-5C, because there's simply no reason NOT to play all colors at that point. Yidris, Tazri, and Scion become the most powerful and most played (online) commanders. Turn 1-2 wins skyrocket in frequency. No benefits come except slightly more options for turn 1-2 combos (Yawgmoth's Bargain instead of Ad Nauseam, etc).