thegigibeast

List for new Selvala. Please drop into tier 2 decklists

selvala brostorm by asm

@n0bunga

Added, very nice list with good and funny description.

@tw0handt0uch

Added, very nice list with well written primer.

Thanks both for your contribution!

Welcome back thegigibeast!

Based on conversations we have had for the past few weeks I think the following changes are in order.

Demotions out of tier 2:

Jhoira of the Ghitu: Waaay too slow. I havent heard anyone mention her name as remotely competitive in a Long time

Kaalia of the Vast: Demotion is long overdue. Pure pubstomp, not competitive since angels dragons and demons are not cEDH playable on thier own and she requires many to be good.

Titania, Protector of Argoth: Selvala is WAY better and should take her place. She is a middle of the pack green general and all her peers are tier 3.

Shattergang Brothers: Way too slow to compete with tier 1 and tier 2 decks. With the partner commanders having access to more colors (better stax pieces) shattergang is simply tier 3.

Oloro, Ageless Ascetic: Does nothing but lifegain and is too overcosted to be worthy of casting in a competitive game for the card draw.

Should be given consideration for demotion from Tier 2:

Child of Alara, Roon of the Hidden Realm, Daretti, Scrap Savant, Purphoros, God of the Forge

Who should be promoted to tier 1:

Thrasios, Triton Hero: There really is no question here. Hes stronger than half of tier 1 without being close to being solved. Please promote him already so I can shut up about him.

Breya, Etherium Shaper: Very strong and fast. Slightly worse than thrasios but still borderline tier one IMO. Artifact based builds are really not her most competitive build.

Possible demotion from tier 1:

Animar, Soul of Elements: This is simply my opinion. Very explosive, but many tier 2 generals are just as fast (gitrog, Breya, and SBT are arguably faster on average because black provides so much consistency and they have better game ending combos for multiplayer). Animar has trouble killing a table all at once and is very commander-centric.

Brago, King Eternal: Most of the stuff I have read recently does not consider Brago as tier 1 anymore and some ppl consider Augustine better. I personally would be more afraid of brago but it is an issue that has yet to be resolved

Also here is an excellent list and primer for Sliver Queen. Please add it to the primers list:

Kahno's list

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/755409-sliver-queen-5-color-boonweaver-combo

Welcome back thegigibeast! Since you are back though I think it might time for a comment reset. Close to 400 comments is getting up there.

Lilbrudder I would agree with almost all of those except for Titania, Protector of Argoth, and Purphoros, God of the Forge as both are still really solid. Brago should stay where he is at, Animar is not as good as he once was, Breya could be tier one, Thraisos is definitely tier 1 material, and the rest of what you said I agree with. Also, could I get a little help finishing out this deck Teysa's Darkest Hour

IMO purphorous with Panharmonicon is just silly, all the benefits of Furnace of Rath and none of the drawbacks.

Play 10 tokens. Win game. It's just too easy.

@viperfang4 here - My Teysa list if you want actual advice respond and ill slam your comments with my knowledge. Spent two years with the bae.

Hey all, so I've been paying attention to the cEDH event results lately and I see an overwhelming amount of Kraum, Ludevic's Opus + Vial Smasher the Fierce and yet I don't see either of these being discussed or suggested for high tier? They also aren't in Tier 1 or 2.

Did I miss the discussion?

This discussion is commanders in a pod setting, all those events are in a 1v1 setting, which vial smasher is busted in. That meta is much different than this meta, in fact several of the best 1v1 commanders, we have in tier 5 because they don't fair well in groups.

Anyone else think Paradox Engine (and Dramatic reversal/Scepter) can bump Arcum back up to tier 1? I'm bout to go make a list...

I see, and on the other side of this coin this group seems to be very excited about Thrasios, Triton Hero. I'm sorry to say that I spent a good while back tracking up the 400+ comments and gave up before finding the discussion about this card. Are we talking about it being able to partner with another partner mechanic card or having it on it's own? What would be the main win-con for Thrasios?

Partnering with pretty much anything that brings .

I found a pretty interesting guide for Thrasios for those interested. Thoughts?

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/761412-thrasios-triton-hero-to-infinity-and-beyond

For those not interested in reading, the TL:DR would be that the top 2 partners are Thrasios, Triton Hero + Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix for the simic infinite mana combos and Tymna the Weaver instead of Kydele.

Thrasios can really do a ton of different archetypes to be honest. He can do Hermit Druid, Boonweaver Giant combo, eggs, storm, tasigur control, dramatic scepter seems to be the best win con based on thrasios' ability, followed by bomberman, followed by monolith combos

cool, thanks for the info :)

The linked Daretti list is from 2014 Dec 27. Let's get an updated list. :)

Sheldon Menery did a mailbag Q and A yesterday. Thought this was worth sharing if anyone didn't see it.

Q: Has there been any uptick in chatter over the past six to twelve months on whether particular, specific cards should be banned? In other words, is there any particular card people are talking about much more now than they used to? I remember you saying somewhere that Iona, Shield of Emeria had been a more popular topic of discussion recently, but I might be just wishful thinking.

A: Not really. After banning Prophet of Kruphix, we got into a particularly good spot.

Looks like Leovold's safe for now

Edit: Also of interest

Q: Do you read banlist discussions? If so, then what is the most ridiculous or out of place card you've seen discussed?

A: I do indeed read them (although I frequently skip ahead during the Sol Ring discussions). There are often out-of-place cards, because people will post about the latest card to annoy them. Zendikar Resurgent recently came up and I was totally confused. That card seems emblematic of the format: expensive and epic.

The second part doesn't matter, but the fact that he skips past Sol Ring banning discussions likely means he has no interest in seeing it banned. And if sol ring isn't getting banned, Mana Crypt/Vault isn't ever getting banned, so we can put that discussion to rest.

He also made some comments that imply that he might actually support cEDH.

Q: Lotus Petal. Underrated, overrated or somewhere in between?

A: It's perfect, because if I see someone playing it in Commander, I know exactly what kind of player they are.

If you're playing Lotus Petal, you're likely playing cEDH, and he seems to be absolutely fine with that. Just thought that was some interesting insight. He also makes mention in other places in the article that he thinks locally "banning" cards from the format is what you should be doing if you don't like them, as they probably aren't going to be actually banned, or create house rules that an infinite combo can only do "5-10 iterations before it's forced to stop". Seems like he's opposed to actually forcing the format to power down, and instead wants people to make house rules for it.

This doesn't really apply to cEDH more to my playgroup, if I had my druthers I'd house ban cards like memnarch. It just feels like the stupidest wincon. If you're making infinite mana just blue sun and call it a day. Seriously.

I don't mean that cEDH players are going to make house rules, I was just pointing out that he was saying "you should make house rules if you don't like super tuned combo decks" instead of "we don't support people making/playing cEDH decks, we are going to be actively keeping an eye out to see what we should ban next".

I know, I wasn't providing commentary on your post, simply running parallel and bitching about my meta :P

Since we're talking about Sheldon's article, I'd like to bring up a few other questions I found interesting, starting with this:

Q: Can I have Gifts Ungiven back?

A: No, because you've been nice without it, but if we give it back, you'll be naughty.

Obviously the question is a little vauge (the questioner doesn't explicitly ask for unbanning of Gifts Ungiven) and the response is very flippant and tongue-in-cheek. Still, I think the fact that this guy thinks Gifts Ungiven is too much but that shit like Ad Nauseam, Necropotence, Survival of the Fittest, etc. are okay speaks volumes about his view on the format. Is Gifts Ungiven really so much better than all of these cards that it's worth keeping banned? Is it really that much better than just Intuition? I won't get into it now, but I don't think it is that much better and I don't think it should be banned.

Here's another one:

Q: How do you decide what is banworthy and why have Derevi, Empyrial Tactician; Tooth and Nail; and Iona, Shield of Emeria not made the ban list?

A: For the first part of your question, you can check out our Philosophy document, which lays out how and why we ban cards. For the second part, the short answer is that we don't think they currently meet the criteria. We don't ban cards lightly, taking a more conservative approach. We prefer a list which is as short as possible. We'd rather leave something borderline legal than ban it just in case. We don't do test bannings, partially because the messaging to a broad audience is difficult, and banning something and then unbanning it can create a great deal of confusion. We don't argue for why a card is unbanned; we only give reasons for why cards are banned. The cards you mention are certainly some of the most commonly-discussed. Of the three, Derevi is the one most on our radar. I'll say that we don't simply ban every card which someone finds annoying or unlikeable. We want loads of potential archetypes for deckbuilders to explore, even if some of them don't resonate with our personal styles.

Not much to glean from most of this other than that they have their eye on Derevi and they don't like constantly changing their ban list. The last sentence is interesting because it somewhat contradicts other statements Sheldon has made in the past about people who want to make EDH more competitive, and even stuff he says earlier in the same article. Stax is an archetype some people may want to play, but Sheldon said earlier that it goes against the philosophy of the format since it doesn't make it fun for other people to play.

Another:

Q: Why is the phrase "(and others like them)" even on the ban list page? All it does is create dissent.

A: I disagree that all it does it create dissent. There's clearly a hard-and-fast banned list, but we'd also like for those cards to be exemplars for others that your local group might also consider not playing with.

I actually never noticed this clause, and the fact that it is there shocks and concerns me. Fortunately, nobody else I've talked to about the format knows or cares about it either, so no big deal.

We'll end with a good one:

Q: How do you feel about the slowly increasing number of players who think that WotC should take over the format?

A: I feel like summarily rejecting the notion, since you've invented a fact. I don't deny that some people might think it; I just hear it less these days than in the past.

Wow. Why even do a Q&A if you're going to be so dismissive? Sheldon, nobody cares about you being witty while telling off someone who you perceive to be a troll. This person is asking a legitimate question about something that may have a big impact - WOTC assuming direct control of the format - and you're blowing him off.

This whole article just reminds me of his Ten Card Banlist article. If you haven't read that one, you absolutely should because it speaks volumes about his priorities for the format.