Ohthenoises I've already done a lot of rigorous testing with Paradox Engine in Azami, believe me, it's very worth it. It's not a replacement to Mind Over Matter, but if you have a way of getting engine from your library to battlefield, such as Whir of Invention or Transmute Artifact it's definitely a great card if you've got the rocks to back it up.

@ZomBee_Hunt: We'll add suitably optimized decklists for tier 3 commanders to the description as we find them. The best way to contribute in that regard is to find (or make) decks you believe to be viable candidates and link them here for review. The process is going to take quite a while due both to the size of tier 3 and the lack of competitive interest in them. It's likely that because of those factors, decks for tier 3 commanders will be held to a much lower standard.

@Noctem: Beastmaster Ascension is an alright option in Derevi. Elesh Norn fills its function better though.

I'm actually most excited to try it in Yisan.

Idk if I'd say that LP is completely dead, it prevents people from wrathing lest they Armageddon themselves

NarejED I would like to submit my Zedruu the Greathearted deck for consideration for that tier 3 spot. Zedr(YOU), Zed(WHAT). My meta is pretty competitive decks. There is a General Tazri going around, There is sidisi/ad nauseum combo, couple Jeleva storm decks. then also some random teir 2/3 generals

My build has been able to shut them down or at least keep up where its a grindy match up and not a quick one at all.

The deck is not quite complete just because LGS dont have the cards in stock and im too lazy to look online.

I also feel like Zedruu is an intersting deck in teh fact that I could not just hand the deck to someone and have them no what to do. I am always having people watch me and saying "How does zedruu win." and then I win and they didnt expect it.

NarejED and if it does get picked I can write up a better description then what is there now. :D

It's been my experience that the best way to play Zedruu is in a stax shell. She has decent synergy with cards like Sphere of Resistance and Stony Silence, because such cards effect the board equally regardless of who controls them. It looks like you're running a few like Arcane Laboratory, but there's definitely a lot missing.

The lists picked seem to have no price limits in mind, so that's at least one way to improve the deck.

I think Kari Zev is terrible. It's so bad, I think we should bring back Tier 6 just to put her in it. I am shocked and honestly offended that WotC would print a card this bad.

Also, I think we should move up Higure, the Still Wind and Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni.

She's good outside of commander to be fair. A 3/3 that has to be blocked by 3 creatures is pretty good and the fact that she triggers Revolt is huge.

She also synergizes pretty well with Purphoros decks in that she ensures you are constantly getting a dude in play and her menace makes it easier to keep her alive.

As someone said before: not as good as something like goblin rabblemaster but still pretty decent.

What are people's opinions on Engine in Yisan? I feel like by the time you'll want to cast it to gain insane value, you'll be getting Seedborn Muse anyway.

Any point in testing Heroic Intervention in the deck?

What are people's opinions on Engine in Yisan? I feel like by the time you'll want to cast it to gain insane value, you'll be getting Seedborn Muse anyway.

Any point in testing Heroic Intervention in the deck?

NarejED I do agree with the more staxish cards like Sphere of Resistance and Stony Silence prob def going to pick them up. I posted this deck as it is right now and not what the finish project is going to look like. If need be, I can change the deck to the finished product thought then it wouldn't be a deck I own.

But as far as you say it is missing a lot, I do not believe that is as true.

While I don't have the aforementioned cards, I do have cards like Mana Maze and In the Eye of Chaos. I have in the mail cards like Stranglehold which can hose a lot of decks. in the mid to late game, I have Dovescape and at that point there goes every combo deck.

WHile I do have the stax element, I also have the control element and card advantage in Consecrated Sphinx, Cyclonic Rift, Mana Drain, Cryptic Command the various tutors I have to assemble any piece I need in that moment. the various artifacts that help me control what I am going to draw. Sensei's Divining Top Scroll Rack

I am thinking even a Rest in Peace as a lot of decks have some sort o recursion out of the graveyard.

Also building a deck on paper is a lot different then play testing. I have tested some cards and traded them out for others because they were just dead draws and I would have liked something in that place.

I may be biased and I can see that, but I am trying to write an unbiased view.

I do think it is missing some cards but not many. Compared to a lot of zedruu decks though it is the most competitive I have seen and also has been play tested against some of the top tier generals.

lets continue the debate :D

See above for my view on kari. Can we agree that the monkey token itself is T0?

back to tier list discussion, as far as decks go, deck construction might have to be divided since the partner combos added a large chunk to the tier list. I swear one day ill have the patience to make cuts to azusa but for now, too many things happening for AER preparations. as of right now, i think we should accept any decent t3 commander to link until a better one can be found. Yes this contradicts the notes in the description, but it would give people a place to start for optimizing.

Thoughts are welcome while I try to think of a different route for baral than high tide. ill take any flak for trying the non high tide but there may be something there.

Happy late new year everyone (whats left of my conscience needs that said)

So, I am trying to get rid of 3 more cards in my Teysa, Orzhov Scion deck Teysa's Darkest Hour. I would love a little help cutting and some suggestions. I think the deck will be the fastest teysa deck on tappedout when it's done and could be our t3 deck possibly putting her in t2; it is a lot like Saffi Eriksdotter decks.

Kari Zev has the potential to be excellent in French EDH, being roughly on par with Zurgo Bellstriker for aggro. However, in multiplayer, she suffers from all the same issues Geist of Saint Traft does, having an aggro strategy that simply doesn't work against 120 life points. Tier 5 is definitely where she belongs.

For what it's worth, playing Geist in a tempo control shell designed around Balance effects makes him a pretty decent general at mid-level tables. He's sort of like a mini Narset in that he's hard to answer and is actually a pretty great attacker once you have something like Steel of the Godhead on him. Tons of control and card advantage can help you to take games. As long as you build your curve with the notion of resolving Armageddon quite often, you're going to do ok. This strat sucks ass at competitive tables, but if your goal is to keep everyone sub 10 permanents and 2 of them are geist + minor voltron, he can do ok work. The only issue is that the casual tables where this strat is both fun and viable heavily frown upon you blowing up lands 3 times per game, but oh well...

Ok, the teysa deck above is 100 cards now.

Unfortunately cards arent judged by flavor but what they themselves do. In limited, yes she is awesome. In standard, maybe. Kitchen table, yeah sure. In modern, legacy, vintage probably will be unused. Commander unlikely but can happen. The monkey on the other hand is bonkers, yes. The monkey literally starts revolt.

well w/e you say narej ;)

just hope to see some proper! candidates for more tier 3 lists, and perhaps t4 , t5 , t2 or t1 ...as that will be insanely interesting for many people , if it be me hell i'de even love to see applications for the other tier list purely to have a wider option and view on what other people can actually do to prove if even an upvote on the tierlist it's placed in or just show of their creation!!!

you could even have polls or wathever to vote for the commander-deck that is being shown here as an example to add to the giant personal opinion of all of use together !!

Noctem is just a joke though... no comment on his trolling part.

Hey Guys, long time reader, first time poster.

First off, this is an amazing list; it seems well curated, fairly rated, and offers really good advice.

I had two questions:

1. Is it likely that Baral, Chief of Compliance might become an acceptable High Tide general in place of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy?

2. What prompted the move of Saffi Eriksdotter from T2 to T3? I run her as a pretty lean combo list and was hoping for insight into what issues she has since I may be biased towards her?

Few... For a second there I though there was a goat in the chat!

XD same I got scared goats scare me

All above jesting aside

1. this is currently being tested. See math above. currently comment 59. Although some other factors will need to be tested. I'm really trying to steer away from HT since something something variety
2. ??? I dont know myself

Have fun and feel free to comment more. Sure some might jest but we're all here for competitive and deck Exploration. We try to take users' advice in mind objectively. If you would like, feel free to try to make a cEDH deck. who knows, maybe one of your decks might end up on the linked decks (totally not free labor we actually have a lot of decks that need lists). Good luck.

@Not_a_Goat:

1. It's too early to tell for sure but right now the tentative answer is no. The math I did earlier basically just shows that he can potentially be a good High Tide commander, but not as good as Jace. Jace is better at searching for combo components in the early game whereas Baral in the early game just kind of sits there and does a Goblin Electromancer impression.

2. I'm not entirely sure but if I had to guess it would probably be because she's a combo commander that requires a sac outlet in the form of an artifact (usually Blasting Station or Altar of Dementia) in colors that have only one way to tutor for artifacts - Enlightened Tutor. Compare this to Abzan Boonweaver decks that use a similar combo (identical in fact - once you start Pattern of Rebirthing the first cards you grab are Karmic Guide and Saffi iirc) but have more tutors, more sac outlets, and more ways to actually win once you start looping. Saffi could try a more staxy build, but Captain Sisay outclasses her in this regard - it's hard to compare to a stax deck that can tutor for Gaddock Teeg, Linvala, Thalia, Kataki, etc. on command. So tier 3 makes sense for her.