Lilbrudder - yeah, I do agree that Rashmi is unexplored, I'm brewing it since the day it has been spoiled :) (my current decklist is the one used in the sample decklists above).

I do prefer making experiments with tier 2 commanders and I like to build them in a way in which they are relevant in tier 1 pods. Among many tier 2 commanders I've played recently (Azami MoM control, Marath hatebears, JVP high tide, food chain Zegana and Sisay stax) I find Rashmi the one with the biggest potential. The value it gives is outstanding and the fact that it allows to play 1-2 mana counterspells (swan song, flusterstorm, spell pierce etc) that stop faster combos while still making value of them is quite unique.

The only problem I have with Rashmi is the deck win cons. It is a commander that does not win on spot with infinite mana or with food chain and it has no ETB or tap ability to win with paradox engine or reversal + scepter. The most common ways to win are either Palinchrons combos or FS/magus + helm/sculptor + sensei but they are both a little bit clunky. Anyway I still do consider Rashmi tier 2 commander because of its ability to deal with tier 1 combos while not losing the fuel because counterspells cantrip themselves. I'm still brewing and searching for the best win con there and I hope that future builds will convince you to put it in tier 2 where it deserves to be imho :).

Rarian: I didnt even know we had a Rashmi list. My bad. I'll check your build out in the near future. She certainly has the tools necessary to be tier 2. The lack of a clear wincon is a problem though as you mentioned.

Lilbrudder - thanks a lot, I look forward to hearing your opinion :) I've just updated the list to make it up to date so feel free to check the current build. The lack of clear win cons is a problem, true, but the infinite mana combo is quite easy and fast to assemble and from my experience I do not win like 1-2% of games in which I manage to go infinite with mana. My current build have numerous ways to do it. Some picks may seem questionable (playing all three 5-mana turns; time warp, temp manipulation and capture) but they do work and help to assemble the win just like the ones in Edric :). The rest of build is pretty standard, mana dorks, low mana counterspells, cantrips and tutors :).

@viperfang4 Don't worry about derevi viper ;) , she is still tier 1 !

Can anybody explain to me why Anafenza, the Foremost is, against the top tier decks, not generally superior to Karador, Ghost Chieftain? And, if so, they should switch places above.

My understanding is that you might cast Karador one out of 10 games. The exile creatures ability of Anafenza is relevant against some Breya builds, some Thrasios builds, Gitrog, Karador, Scion, SBT, with incidental value again any deck that is cycling through some of its cards, for example Windfall with Laboratory Maniac in hand (i.e. blue Doomsday decks).

Yeah I don't see how karador is not tier 2. He cannot interact with combo decks to keep them from going off. Sure he can go up against stax decks but so can a few other decks in tier 2 that in my opinion are on the same level. He is however still the most resilient commander to hate which may be why he stays so high up their, but his failure to interact should push him down a bit.

I think it might be time for a vote on the tier list in general because some things got moved around based off of one or two opinions.

IronBlackZepp, I should have added that my previous post was in regards to them as heads of Abzan Boonweaver.

For Abzhan Boonweaver (the optimal strategy for that color combination), your commander doesn't really matter since you're probably never casting them. Karador is generally still considered the best since he can let you recast a combo piece from the graveyard if it gets countered. Ghave is considered the second best since he's a combo piece for a backup win condition combo in the command zone. Teneb is a distant third since he's basically a worse Karador. Abzan partner combinations involving Ravos could be decent, but overall partners are not worth the loss of a card in the maindeck. Doran and Daghatar add absolutely nothing to the deck, other than maybe the mindgame aspect of your opponents thinking you're playing a bad deck when really you're playing a top tier deck with a low tier general and thus ignoring you until you start comboing.

You brought up a few good situations where Anafenza is good - Hermit Druid, The Gitrog Monster, Sidisi, any deck with Survival of the Fittest, etc. However some of your examples are more questionable. Blue Food Chain decks, for example, don't care about Misthollow Griffin or Eternal Scourge being exiled if they have a reliable way to tutor for a win condition like Walking Ballista (or in Tazri's case, Kalastria Healer). I'm not familiar with Breya builds, but I don't think they run that many creatures. Generally speaking, blue storm decks rarely run more than 5 creatures, if that (even UBGx storm decks run less than 10). There's also the fact that she's a dead card in many cases. Sure she's good against creature-combo decks, especially ones that love their graveyard, but what if you sit down at a table with a bunch of Stax decks that use non-creature win conditions (Teferi, Grand Arbiter, etc.) or combo decks that just don't use creatures (JVP, Narset)? You will probably never cast Anafenza in those games as you'll just be playing other hatebears or searching for your own win condition. In these cases, Karador is better, even if only marginally so.

So Anafenza is still just generally worse than Karador which means that she won't be moving to top tier anytime soon. I could see her moving up to tier 2, but not past that.

I hope someone makes a similar list for unofficial commanders. Doubtful but possible. The current list of unofficial commanders, according to EDHREC, has only sixteen entries. It wouldn't be all that hard.

Is there any way to move tier 2.5 to before tier 2? Right now it sits between 1.5 and 2 and it kinda messes with the way the list works

Is there any way to move tier 2.5 to before tier 2? Right now it sits between 1.5 and 2 and it kinda messes with the way the list works

I think we need a tier 7, where Barktooth Warbeard can be alone to contemplate the universe

also, more like Daretti CRAP savant. PFFFT

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet. But I'd personally say that Arcum Dagsson is a strong tier one with his ability to combo off the turn he is able to tap now, due to Paradox Engine. Making him a little less prison/toolbox and more combo/counterspell with the odd silver bullet to suit your meta.

The problem with Arcum is that you have to cram a bunch of small creatures into the deck for it to function. Similarly to narset, the deck deos not run well without him so if you can take care of him quickly you can shut the deck down for the most part. There are backup plans but not many. I actually think that he is getting a bit overhyped right now because of engine. He has no hexproof built in so he is easy to remove. You could argue that he only costs 4, well so deos kaalia and she gets removed on sight. He deos have counter magic to back him up but not enough because of the awkward artifacts, and creatures that flood the deck. My consensus on him is that he is a strong general, but he needs to win asap, because if he can't the game is over for him quick.

Arcum doesn't even deserve tier 1.5 never mind tier 1.

TranscendingAll, From a theory point of view, and I'd love to hear the thoughts of others, I don't think a deck that could literally win 100% of the time you successfully cast its commander, given its commander has a cmc of 3U, with no black up plan, would be strong enough for tier one. If it was literally 100%, which Arcum is not, I would put it at tier 1.5

illumfolly, you have erred, and greatly erred. As a plan A, Barktooth Warbeard can bite the other players, but he has the backup plan of barking, which can be mental rattling and lead to immediate concession.

If you build a combo Arcum deck you can win turn 4 fairly consistently without arcum, since there is so many ways to generate infinite mana and up to 15ish tutors to support that. I don't think you guys are up to date on the arcum thread.

Arcum was moved up to tier 1.5 in the update thanks to the release of Paradox Engine, which greatly speeds up his win time. However, as a mono blue commander, Teferi is still stronger.

NarejED - what about this Rashmi issue :)? We had a little discussion with Lilbrudder a few posts above and we've agreeded that it is at least even with or in fact superier to tier 2 Momir Vig :). I'd like to hear your opinion on this commander in general or on my current list (it is among sample decklists above). From my experience it is quite strong and underrated commander which deserves its place in tier 2 because of the reasons I've mentioned above.

hey if we have list for tier 3 generals can I have my Glissa list be for glissa?

millionlittlee Post a link and it will be looked over. Can't answer your question otherwise.

@Rarian: Rashmi is a great value engine. The biggest issue by far that I've run into with her is that she lacks anything resembling a good win condition. Vig has less of this issue, since he's much better able to assemble a combo or reach critical Elfball mass thanks to his tutoring ability. Though to be fair, the Rashmi builds I've seen have felt a bit rough. If someone has innovated some new improved strategies for her in the past few weeks, I could see her moving up. Nothing I've thus seen has indicated tier 2 worthiness though.

Rarian momir and rashmi are very different decks, your rashmi list looks like control and blue heavy where momir is better as a toolbox green heavy deck so I don't know if it is fair to compare the two of them and use it as justification for rashmi being moved up.