Ok thanks for the responses.

I'd choose Deglamer, Unravel the Aether, and Fade into Antiquity before I'd pick either of those.

NarejED, thegigibeast id like to submit my deck again for the tier 3 Zedruu the Greathearted deck.

Average CMC has been cut, more global affects have been added and less one person effects.

Zedr(YOU), Zed(WHAT)

Thanks.

I feel like Omnath, Locus of Rage is under appreciated. Omnath, Locus of Rage. AKA Madnath.

Certain suboptimal cards in your build should be cut out before consideration. Cards like Cultivate, Explosive Vegetation, Asceticism, and possibly Zendikar's Roil, seem too slow, at least in my experience.

@ZomBee_Hunt: There are still a lot of cards that just don't have a place in a competitive build. I know Enduring Ideal is one of your primary win conditions, but it's no justication to run so many unplayable cards like Spiritual Asylum, Psychic Surgery, Lightmine Field, etc. Plus Ideal doesn't appear to function any more since you removed one of the key lockdown pieces: Dovescape, which combos with Humility and an attack preventer to form a true lock. The deck has definitely improved a lot since you first submitted it, but I still don't feel it's an accurate representation of what a competitive Zedruu deck should look like. I'm confident that if you keep working at it and looking at competitively built decks, you'll get there eventually though.

Keep up the good work!

NarejED, Lilbrudder - I think I finally found the best Rashmi build there is after weeks of testing :) I've dropped those clunky palinchron combos and build a deck around Isochron Scepter and Paradox Engine, which is much faster and more consistent.

Please, look it up and say whether it may apply for tier 2:

Rashmi, Crafter of Masterpiece (Paradoxical Storm)

I covered most of the main issues in a description but if you have any question I would gladly answer them.

I had to opportunity to look over the deck and playtest it a few times. I must say, I'm really impressed. For pure goldfishes with no interaction, the deck managed to achieve wins by turn 4 most of the time. In 1v1, it held up fairly well. Sadly I didn't have the time to play it in any pods for an actual metric, but from what I have seen so far, it's quite solid. I went ahead and bumped Rashmi up to tier 2 (again) and added the new decklist you linked. Surprisingly Scroll Rack ended up being one of the strongest enablers.

Out of curiosity, what made you decide not to include Nature's Lore, Three Visits, Mind's Desire, or Snap? Snap especially seems like a SNAP include (baddum tssk) since you're running High Tide, and given Rashmi's natural preference for instant-speed interaction.

NarejED - I'm super happy to hear that because I dedicated way more time that I should have to make Rashmi as competetive as possible (I just love this commander :D). The deck for sure will evolve but I'm pretty satisfied with the current build and I'm really happy to see it being appreciated.

Nature's Lore and Three Visits have a major problem in here - they do not keep artifact count for Mox Opal, Whir of Invention and Inventors' Fair. This is why I higly prefer artifact and mana dorks ramp. Simic Signet is, in general, worse than those two, but in here it bumps the artifact count and sacrifices itself for Transmute Artifact.

Snap is a good suggestion, I probably should find the spot for it. As for Mind's Desire I find the amount of current win cons fine but it is definitely worth testing in future :).

Btw thanks for bumping Rashmi, you've changed the commander's place but the decklist remains in tier 2.5 which may be misleading for people who want to look it up. If you can bump the decklist too, I'd be very welcome :).

Rarian: Whoa bud! That list is excellent. Its a big improvement over the old iteration, which was very strong. I think you adapted the paradox/scepter/top combo to Rashmi very well. The only notable omission I can see is Jace's Archivist. It may be a pet card of mine, but I have found that if you manage to untap with archivist in an engine shell you are pretty much guaranteed victory.

So after testing engine combo with Thrasios and Leo extensively and tinkering a bit with Rarian's masterpiece I am convinced enough to say something crazy. In a GU color scheme Paradox Engine is STRICTLY better than a traditional High Tide package. Its so good I think it has earned Ad Naus status, in that if you are playing GU then you better have a damn good reason to not be playing engine (edric may be an exception). For 1-2 color mana bases and decks without green (i.e grixis; esper) I think High Tide is still one of the better build around me cards in cEDH and well worth a spot, but I see little to no reason to bother with High Tide in BUG or BUGx decks anymore. Its too much trouble, it distorts your mana base, has antisynergy with green's best form of fast mana (1 drop dorks) and engine produces like 3x the mana with far less effort. Engines only cost is playing tons of ramp card advantage and tutors...

For replacement Omnath, Locus of Mana:Omnath, Mana Storm

Why is this list better than the posted one?
1. A primer, a decklist without a primer is not very helpful in explaining to people why a deck is tier x.
2. the current decklist is not very well trimmed and suffers from tribal card pool: running some questionable cards solely because they are elves.
3. Most important point: the list is elfball Omnath is a poor choice of general for such a build and will always be out classed by generals like Yisan, Wanderer Bard, Rishkar, Peema Renegade and Rhys the Redeemed. This list, however represents an Omnath list, as was pointed out a while ago Atogatog can just run a hermit druid combo but we don't call Atogatog a tier 1.5 general, the same applies here.

As a final point the list claims to consistently lay it's entire deck turn 4-5. How? no deck can consistently generate ~100 mana by turn 4 using elves and Omnath. Sure sometimes you might get selvala and a few untappers but not with consistency. My play testing confirms that the deck rarely wins turn 4-5.

I am all for replacing my omnath list since I really dont play omnath anymore and an active list would definitely be better. I provided it simply as a stopgap measure because we didnt have one. As for your points, I admit consistent turn 4-5 is a bit of an exaggeration (again I remind you all I am a bit dramatic at times). Turn 4 wins are certainly possible, but turns 5-6 are much more likely with that particular deck.

I am confused how you are having so much difficulty going infinite early with even my admittedly (not optimized list). Unless you take a bad opening hand without mulliganing, all elfball decks can play an entire deck fairly quickly and without much difficulty unless they are being disrupted. It involves chaining big card draws, haste enablers, untap effects, and elf combos to go infinite. Omnath is not an ideal elfball commander but he does store mana and help produce giant draws to get the ball rolling.

I know we don't have a Baral list yet, but I feel like he should be moved up to tier 2 with Jace, they both run High Tide equally well.

Lilbrudder, I too am guilty of exaggeration. thanks for everyone's consideration regardless of the final decision.

@ Dunadain: Other than the abundance of low-impact elves, Lilbrudder's list looks a lot more tuned. The list you submitted seems all over the place, with a lot of high-cost cards, group hug effects, and generally odd choices. Plus you're missing a good number of key staples like Sylvan Library, Carpet of Flowers, and the 1-drop mana dork package.

NarejED, my deck is essentially Green's version of High Tide therefore I don't run Sylvan Library, Carpet of Flowers and mana dorks, none of these have value while storming off. What group hug effects? What odd choices? The deck is admittedly far from perfect but could you specify for me? Thanks for the input!

Sorry if this sounds like I'm being obnoxious, if you don't like it that's fine I'm just trying to understand why

True group hug effects: Dictate of Karametra, Heartbeat of Spring, Rites of Flourishing, Horn of Greed, Storm Cauldron.

Psuedo or partial group hug effects: Concordant Crossroads, Vernal Bloom, Extraplanar Lens, Keeper of Progenitus, Gauntlet of Power.

I get that your primary focus here is to generate large quantities of mana via land ramp, but the majority of these cards directly fuel opponents, which can frequently enable them to win prior to you reaching critical mass. Omnath is rarely if ever the fastest deck at the table, so potentially adding gas while little interaction will lead to very few wins.

Also, what made you decide not to run Magus of the Candelabra given your current strategy? The low cost and extremely relevant ability make it seem an obvious include.

This list is designed for multiplayer commander, correct?

NarejED Thanks for your help Dictate, and Rites could probably go but Heartbeat, Horn of Green and Storm have been solid. Magus was in the originall (terrible) list and the biggest improvement I had made to the deck was taking out critters that need to tap since my only option is Concordant Crossroads since then I have slowly and successfully added a few back in and Magus will probably find itself back in shortly.

BlackShadowBlaze Are you referring to me? yes.

anyways if you think my list is that terrbible don't add it but I would love to see an active deck-list with a Primer which was the big reason I posted my deck

NarejED I was wondering if you think my Karn deck is tuned enough to be posted under the tier 3 category Karn, Silver Golem - Competitive. The CMC is relatively low compared to other builds I've seen and it focuses much more on combos rather than the typical slow equipment voltron.

NarejED Sorry to be the third person in 3 consecutive posts to bug you about a decklist, but someone asked about Baral High Tide on r/CEDH and it inspired me to make this list and do a bit of preliminary testing. It combos out about a turn slower than Jace on average, but it's honestly not all that bad. If you whiff off a draw7 then you're not completely screwed since High Tide (usually) isn't exiled and you can try again later. Anyway, feel free to take a look at it and tell me how bad Retraced Image is and if you feel like it's worth including in the list of decks then great.

I feel bad about shilling my own deck, so let me shill other peoples' decks now. The link to the Grand Arbiter Augustin IV list no longer works, so I'd suggest one of these:

BigLupu's list

deadmanwaltzing's list

Either one will work, they're identical except for two cards.

Wow, I haven't been on here in a few weeks and it seems like I missed a lot. (Apparently .5 tiers weren't never gonna happen?)

I'm not going to complain because it looks like it's given the top of the list more clarity and people seem happy, but I'd like to bring up some commanders that seem to have been overlooked during all this Upheaval. (Sorry, if any of these have been discussed, I did a cursory crtl+f before posting and didn't see anything.):

First off, the simple stuff:

Kaalia of the Vast, Titania, Protector of Argoth, and Teneb, the Harvester were all in Tier 2 fairly recently, and there was a lot of hesitancy about whether to demote them. Now that there's a Tier 2.5, shouldn't they be there instead of Tier 3? They are arguably more powerful than the entire rest of T3 after all...

(Either way, Titania needs a decklist. Here's my submission: Optimized Titania, Protector of Argoth)

Diamonds in the Rough. Overlooked Commanders in T4:

I've mentioned this a couple times, but Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro really needs to be promoted out of T4. The deck plays almost exactly like Seton, Krosan Protector (who is now in T2.5) and has the same explosive potential ("shaman-ball" instead of "druid-ball"). Should be promoted to T3. Here's a decklist:

Optimized Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro

Commander / EDH* sonnet666

8 VIEWS

(I'm still tweaking the card balances, but this has been getting turn 5 kills consistently.)

Phenax, God of Deception: This guy is actually a pretty neat Self-Mill / Nooze combo / Doomsday commander. Way better than anything tier 4, but I don't think he makes it past tier 3. Check it out:

Optimized Phenax, God of Deception

Commander / EDH sonnet666

0 VIEWS

Bonus Round (a.k.a. I made some lists):

Optimized Rakdos, Lord of Riots

Commander / EDH sonnet666

255 VIEWS

I took it upon myself to make an optimized Rakdos, Lord of Riots list (Cause I knew no one else was going to, lol). Rakdos's ability totally breaks NarejED's rule of counting low CMC's as a measure of competitiveness, but every time I've playtested it the deck has either won or gotten to a winning board state (giant army + MLD) by turn 5 or 6, which is not bad for T3. Enjoy.

I also made lists for our two under developed Simic commanders:

Optimized Ezuri, Claw of Progress

Commander / EDH sonnet666

67 VIEWS

Mostly I just squished my HD combo from Hermits Make The Best Spies... Wait, What? into different designs. Ezuri wound up being more tutor heavy since the plan A for the deck was finding Sage of Hours (Infect is too slow for a main wincon IMO). Basically all of the tutors that find Hermit Druid also find Sage of Hours, so you just just race to 5 EXP and do HD if Ezuri gets messed with.

I'm starting to feel like every Simic or //X commander can be improved with a Hermit Druid plan if they don't already have something better.

I did also make a HD version of Rashmi, Eternities Crafter, but while I was doing that Rarian posted his list, and honestly I think his is better. Mine still works as a proof of concept, but the HD package is incompatible with High Tide combos because of the low island count, and the Hermit Druid doesn't mesh as well with Paradox Engine. (I did just playtest a T4 win by having Yisan and Mana Crypt in my opener, though, so that was cool.) If anyone wants to see the deck: Optimized Rashmi, Eternities Crafter.

I'm in the process of filling out the decks I've made for here with descriptions. If anyone has any feedback or criticisms, let me hear em :)

NarejED, thegigibeast I have updated my Zedruu the Greathearted deck once again. Acutally every time I get advice I always think damn what can I change, but this time I actually like my changes for the better and gives it another win condition and lowered the average CMC at the same time.

Changes

-Enduring Ideal

-Spiritual Asylum

-Lightmine Field

-Psychic Surgery

-Boros Signet

-Gilded Lotus

+Null Rod

+Windfall

+Auriok Salvagers

+Pyrite Spellbomb

+Cursed Totem

+Lion's Eye Diamond

Yest again, I submit the deck to you for approval Zedr(YOU), Zed(WHAT). Thank you very much, each time I do this I learn more cards an more about my own deck.

So, I had a page-long reply where I answered everyone who has mentioned me recently, as well as a full breakdown of everything I've moved/added in the past day. But Tappedout Crappedout, and I failed to have the foresight to copy the comment before I clicked send. The comment couldn't be recovered. So now I'll just give a concise reply in the from of bullet points.

1. Added N0bunga's Shu Yun list.

2. Added Gate's Baral list.

3. Updated broken GAAIV list link using Lupu's newer deck.

4. Replaced previous Ezuri Claw's list with Sonnet's.

5. Did NOT add Gossipmeng's Karn list. I felt it needed more work. If anyone more knowledgeable on Karn would care to weigh in, that would be great.

6. Did NOT add Sonnet's Rakdos list. The deck felt extremely clunky when tested. I frequently had no significant plays before turn 3. Out of the five games goldfished, not a single one ended before turn 6. As with Karn, if any avid Rakdos pilots want to weigh in on this decision, please do.

7. Added ZomBee's Zedruu list.

NarejED SOrry about your long comment that got lost. But thanks for adding my deck. I think thanks to you turning it down Ive actually made a more competitive build then I thought about. And besides a few lands I actually own everything on the list so that is another good thing.