Latulla, Keldon Overseer is in TierFiev

Ok guyz! i have went through almost all the comments (there was a lot and it was not easy, trust me...) to update the list to a 6 tiers system, but I know the list is still nowhere near perfection. It still needs a lot of updates. I just wanted to say sorry for not being really active here in the last days/weeks... School, and work, and other decks... I will try to be much more active now on.

sonnet666, NarejED, Didgeridooda, Femme_Fatale, all the others (sorry I don't remember all your names...), I would like to rework the list from tier 1 to 6. Do you have anything to say about tier 1, or we can move to tier 2?

Personnally, I think that the weakest commander in tier 1 is Prossh, Skyraider of Kher (no access to blue...), and he is still one of the best commanders and I would not personnally move it down. I think this tier is pretty much perfect, but I would like to clear it out before moving on.

I was noticed and yet I contributed to like nothing here ...

Femme_Fatale: You have a colorful presence.

;)

Just that I remembered your name from the last comments and you contribute in many posts... Your username is also easy to notice.

i wish we could move decks like these to some other space. its really more of an article or something.

I think that with the new update to the mulligan rules, some commanders are going to take a small hit. Prossh may be one of them.

The problem yeaGO is that your lists function doesn't really have much backing for it and the majority of users for this site won't find them anywhere else but through deck searches. Like, where do lists go? How will people find them as easily as a deck?

I think it is time to revamp that community section of the site. Articles in one place, lists in another, primers for a third and streams for a fourth. I'll probably do a more detailed description of that in a forum post, because I also have plans to have a portion of the community section that just links to all the available online gear and accessories one could have, along with an embedded Tolarian Community College youtube video review on that product.

Well, you could add a new app to this site -- maybe use the Django standard and call it "articles" -- then put it at tappedout.net/mtg-artcles. Then, maybe you create a different home url that intermixes articles and decks, or that displays articles in a sidebar alongside the main deck sharing pane.

Agree / support hardcore the second part -- getting a large enough volume of content that it could conceivably separated into / moved to different apps. Adding support for Primers would probably be easy -- just build it from the existing decks app, but add some different features for making it a real primer. Articles and Lists might be a bit different.

We already have articles and lists on here illumfolly. Primers would be what would require some work. All the community section would be is a place for them to actually get frequent coverage. Like being able to cycle them.

I think I just illustrated the problem -- I had no idea about either of those things being a thing. :/ But, glad to know now.

Welp, keep up the good work.

Tier 1 looks great to me (thanks for all the work thegigibeast). I think Prossh should be moved to tier 2 though, mostly due to color identities.

I have to say I don't feel like Ezuri, Claw of Progress should be tier 2. He's pretty good (definitely tier 3) but the deck strategy completely centers around him being on the field. If you can shroud or hexproof him then he's a beast but if not the decks I've seen just get run over because they're fielding tiny creatures which do little without him.

Also I feel like Memnarch is probably a tier 3 as well. It's ability is awesome however because it's an artifact that opens it up to disenchant removal as well as normal creature removal.

Prime Speaker Zegana seems like it is probably tier 3 as well.. I don't have an explicit reason as her color identity is very powerful it just seems not to fit in tier description.

I do agree with you on Ezuri, Claw of Progress irisfibers, I would just like to get the opinion of a couple other persons before moving cards from tier 2, mainly because I have no exeprience with or against this particular commander...

I would like to discuss Prossh, Skyraider of Kher also. With the new mulligans and is lack of blue, I think he should fall tier two, but he would be on the high end of tier two. What is your opinion on this?

For Memnarch, I don't know... I would still like it ranked higher than 5. At least 4, and I could see hime being tier 3, as you said.

But before making any change, I would like more discussion on those precise commanders.

I've done some playtesting with Prossh post-rule change, and while he has suffered a small speed decrease in speed, it's in line with the loss suffered all across the board. I feel he's still worthy of Tier 1 status. The optimized deck runs such a high density of tutors, ramp, and combo pieces that the consistency hasn't suffered at all.

If NarejED says it ;)

And what do you think about the two others I mentionned?

Yeah, Memnarch feels like Tier 3 to me. Gain control of target permanent for isn't fantastic, and besides that, he's basically a vanilla 4/5.

Don't get me wrong I love me some Kobolds, but I feel like Prossh is in the same boat as Kaalia. Hated out of tier 1 because A. Not blue, B. Hard to kill everyone in a pod without an insane hand AND no opponent interaction.I had both built and Prossh just don't get there. I understand why Kaalia isn't Tier 1, no argument their, but Kaalia is better that Prossh in just as many ways as she is weaker.She is cheaper, brings her 'Geddons to the party with friends. Can usually only kill 1-2 people before turn 4 or 5, or at least make sure no gets to Magic.

Has dead draw steps (mana rocks and more geddons).

Prossh is more expensive, brings Kobolds to the party, can randomly go infinite with 1 card (that never resolves, or last long enough to kill everyone) has dead draw steps ( mana dorks and ramp).Can technically kill table on turn 4 with a strong hand. I've heard of a turn 2 but that I think requires the perfect 9 cards.

Not counting the Hermit Druid build of him. Because Prossh does nothing here.

I've played Kaalia for 4 years, Prossh for 2. Prossh doesn't feel as strong or as resilient to games that go long.

I could for sure seem them being moved down. Memnarch is a good outlet for infinite mana, but he has numerous weaknesses as others have pointed out.

Ezuri Claw, I'm not really sure about. He's one of those commanders that hasn't been totally "Solved", and what's already out there seems in line with the lower end of Tier 2. Decent early-game control and strong interactions/synergism with fairly consistent turn 6 combo wins with Sage of Hours. He could go either way on Tiers though.

Prime Speaker Zegana could go either way for me as well. She has some nice interactions with Deadeye and a few other cards and a very strong color identity. She's significantly stronger than number of other commanders that are currently Tier 2.

Also, I'm still a strong advocate for moving Anafenza, the Foremost, Numot, the Devastator, Progenitus, Xenagos, God of Revels, Sliver Overlord, and possibly a few other commanders down to Tier 3.

P.S., I may have found a more time-effective way for you to update the list.

I pretty much agree with NarejED list of Tier movements.None of them are stellar. I would add Ayli and Sydri(color identity only gets you so far)

Zegana got hit with the ban. But still has a relevant ability, and gives Tarmogoyf a home in EDH. Shes still better than half of tier 2 at the moment.

Ayli I could definitely see being moved down. She was placed in Tier 2 shortly before the set actually dropped in hopes that someone would break her. Thus far, she's hasn't proved worthy of Tier 2 play.

Sydri is for sure Tier 2 material though. She has a ton of powerful combos and interactions (Mycosynth Lattice land destruction, Basalt Monolith infinite shenanigans, etc.) She's essentially a strictly better Karn, Silver Golem, costing significantly less and giving access to a brutally powerful color identity.

I typed Sydri on accident, I meant Teneb. I was talking to someone about Sydri. I'm 80% sure that I'm 20% retarded 40% of the time.

Noooooo Teneb is good too! He plays exactly like Karador, Ghost Chieftan. In fact, he has a few slight advantages. His base casting cost with 0 creatures in graveyard is lower, and he's able to recur larger targets more efficiently, and said recurred targets cannot be countered by normal means. The only thing keeping him out of Tier 1 is his reliance on the combat step. As is, he's at the top end of Tier 2. A few people (namely Paramount) actually think he's overall stronger than Karador. He makes a few utility bombs like Iona, Shield of Emeria and Terastodon worth running in an otherwise identical Karador reanimator-control shell. He gets a bad rep due to a combination of unpopularity and association with the rest of the tri-color dragon cycle, which are for the most part notoriously bad.

Iona is kinda worth running in Karador, if just for the fact that you can use Karador to Birthing Pod into her.

And I think Memnarch should stay T2. When you go heavy on artifacts you get a lot of infinite combos and heavy ramp. In fact, it's most of the stuff that makes Sydri so good, just sacrificing the two weaker colors for a more back-breaking effect. Also almost all of his combo pieces can be tutored for in Blue.

I think Prossh and Memnarch should stay where they are. Prossh may be on the lower end of tier one, but he's still significantly better than all of the tier two generals.

The weakness to disenchant effects is a fair criticism of Memnarch, but I don't think the cmc is a problem. Mono-blue mud-style decks have no problem generating mana, and generating infinite mana means Memnarch just wins.

Ayli and Ezuri are both interesting in that they're so new we don't quite know what an optimized list looks like yet, but it seems the early returns on Ezuri are stronger than the early returns on Ayli. I'm fine with Ezuri in tier two, still not convinced on Ayli. It's debatable whether she's a better Orzhov general than Karlov.

Agreed with NarejED on the other changes, Teneb and Prime Speaker should stay where they are. Xenagod, Anafenza, Numot, and Sliver Overlord can definitely get bumped down a tier. Progenitus shouldn't have been in tier two in the first place, he's probably worse than Cromat for god's sake.

This morning's edits:

• Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim, Anafenza, the Foremost, Numot, the Devastator, Progenitus, Xenagos, God of Revels, Sliver Overlord -> Moved down to tier 3.

After reading the comments, I do agree now that Prossh, Skyraider of Kher should stay where it is, tier 1.

As for Ezuri, Claw of Progress, I will not move it for now, because even if it is reliant on the commander to work, there are a lot of combos available (Sage of Hours being the easiest one...) in a strong color identity for commander. I still wait to see an optimized version of him, though.

I don't know why I talked about Memnarch and tier 5 togheter, it will stay in tier 2 for now because it allows us to have a lot of strong infinite mana combos, while also being able to tutor for our artifacts. You are not obligated to rely on him to win, just cast it when needed. For being a mono-brown player with my Kozilek, Butcher of Truth build, I could see why adding blue to the mix would make the deck quite stronger, even if it is only for infinite mana combos. You also have access to a lot more control and draw, and counterspells like Mana Drain to help accelerate your mana while countering a spell... Definitely worth tier 2 in my opinion.