Hey just since it hasn't been mentioned lately and there have been a bunch of "my commander is awesome" posts, there is a rule on here that you don't petition to change the ranking of a commander you play. You can answer questions and provide deck lists for consideration, but it's too easy to be biased towards a commander that you enjoy playing.

mmcgeach: The point is the consistency of those wins. If you can beat an optimized Zur deck a high percent of the time, it suggests that your commander may have the potential to be above Tier 4-5.

HarroHunter: While I do admit that I missed that in the instructions and I apologize, a few counterpoints:

1) The rule you're referencing explicitly says "If you think a commander you run deserves a better place, say it in the comments and let other people judge it." Which is what I did - I wanted to open a discussion.

2) I think that the rule has to be taken with a grain of salt itself, because the only way to truly judge a commander's power level is to play hundreds of games with it in a competitive meta. Experience is more valuable than vague "everyone says this is good" groupthink.

3) In my specific case, I advocated that Avacyn be moved to Tier 3. Yes, I do play her. But this list is to organize commanders by potential, and I think the deck I linked demonstrates that she fits the description for Tier 3 very well: "This is the middle tier. They can't usually compete against tier 1 decks, but might do fine with tier 2 decks. They usually have the Aggro Problem".

4) If you look back at hundreds of previous comments, it's very common for people to suggest tier changes and link their own decks to support it. Chill, man.

Also Daedalus19876 to add to your point 4, most people are looking for their commander to see where it is placed and not checking every single commander to see if they agree with its placement.

I have a friend who uses Azusa as his commander and his deck is unreal. It fights against tier one decks on a fairly even standing and I'm wondering if there is a way to have his list used instead of the current azusa list? Lilbrudder

With the addition of the teir 3 lists and increased discussion of the lower teirs I feel this page has gotten very off topic. The point of this discussion (imo from the last year or two) has been to discuss the top teirs. So my question is: do we really need to nitpick the lower teirs? Yes every one has their deck they love and would like to see it high on the list. For example i love adun oaksheild, but how does moving him up from what ever teir he is in really effect the list. Yes their is a power discrepancy in lower teirs. And the power level in the higher teirs is stable at the moment but moving people from teir 5-4 and 4-3 feels redundant and un-necessary. Again this is my opinion not fact and would like some discussion on the matter.

(Incase i wasn't clear as to my point: the discussion of the lowe teirs feels redundant, and largely unnecessary)

In contrast to Random's opinion, I think it is good that we discuss lower tiers on this list. It gives your everyday Casual players a good indication of what would be fun and competitive in their playgroups, and tells them how much power is too much power. Imo this list should be as accurate as possible, including the lower tiers.

Sorry if I came off as angry or anything with the last post. Wasn't trying to call anyone out. Just thought it was worth mentioning.

I concur with the fact that we should focus on the mid to low tiers as much as the top 2 tiers. Yes this is for a compeditive ranking but to maintain accuracy, every commander would need to be considered, no matter the fish foodiness of the commander

Second im pretty sure the rule for no advertizing more so applies to no favortism - if you can objectively speak about your commander, then you can handle criticism about it. If you cant, the rule is then applied.

monogoodshit if you can link the list it might hold more weight. By all means there should be better builds out there (i am only 1 sleep deprived magic player after all. I wouldnt mind giving up the spot if there is a better list). My only thought process throughout my time piloting azusa was that aggro is just not the way. She gets shut out too easily by wraths, lack of insane draw power, and lack of wraths in green. So my list just became goodstuff combo since i can generally stall/draw/draw the game out to the point where i can t&n or beat face. That said, beating face and the other problems i mentioned make her t3 goodstuff to me as most optimal

Final point, we should even out or at least list the commanders that dont have lists yet. Im trying to even out the easier to me t3 lists but theres many. Pretty sure t1-2.5 might be missing some too in that case.

Discussion is welcome since im sure i miscommunicated somewhere

monogoodshit: I don't have any power to make a deck featured. Its not my list :-) However, if you have a link to your buddies list post it so NarejED and thegigibeast can review it when they have the time.

As for the discussion above. It makes sense to me to focus a bit on the lower tiers as NarejED has fixed the top tiers recently. If people want to make compellimg arguments about thier commander or a commander they think is better than thier placement they need to be able to provide some quantifiable metrics. (i.e. Out of 25 test runs deck x won by turn 5 17 games). Saying its really swell because I beat such and such commander does not hold much water. I am not alluding to anyone in particular, it is just a common argument I hear on this list.

How did you manage to put the tiers in order? I can't figure out how to rearrange my categories.

As Lilbrudder said, if you think you have a good list for a commander, post a link to it here and we'll review it.

The discussion on the topic has swayed me. I was in a bit of poor mood when i posted it, sorry for any discourse it may have caused :)

Figured I'd share my Gonti list since there is no list for him yet.

Gonti - Living the Life at the Expense of Others

Commander / EDH Guerte

SCORE: 21 | 31 COMMENTS | 2528 VIEWS | IN 13 FOLDERS

Hey I was wondering what people think about leovold hermit druid. I play mimeoplasm now but I really don't cast him much so I was thinking about switching commanders. Would I really better off just going for the 4 color deck list? I know the 4 color deck is strong but I want to hear some opinions.

Arcum's Infinite Puzzle Box

Looking for feed back on this list. Personally I think Arcum should be tier 1, due to my experience piloting him. My meta consist of competitive lists of zur/brago/stax/scion and a few others. I win 2/3 out of 5 games. Anywhere from turn 2/5-20+... depending on how many stax players we have playing and what kind of locks they get out... If Arcum gets nevermoored which is almost every game. Etc..

thegigibeast, NarejED

Why was this Ghave that Bitch a Combo taken out for the current example deck? The previous one was DEFINITELY better than the current as the current doesn't even have the Boonweaver Combo in it.

This is coming from someone who's played Ghave at a decently high level for a while now Ghave, Enter the Infinite

Seems like Merike Ri Berit should at least be tier two. She can be pretty good depending on your deck build.

Then offer a deck that makes her look like a tier 2.

@MTWEmperor: Vault's Ghave list was horribly unoptimized. It ran 37 lands, a rather high curve, and a bunch of questionable cards like Rune-Scarred Demon and Skyshroud Claim. While Lerker's deck does have some issues, he's arguably the most knowledgeable Ghave player in competitive EDH.

Fortunately, it looks like he posted a more up to date list recently, so I can update the description link.

ok I made an azusa list (elfball) that I believe is better than my current featured list (general goodstuff). I'm pretty sure there's a bit more tuning due to probabilities of hitting a wincon (green's lack of wincons) but here it is for review:

your best friend v2

Commander / EDH chaosumbreon87

1 VIEW

I eagerly await monogoodshit's list to see where either of these compare though.

thegigibeast and NarejED: Can you please replace my SBT list with Voidia's primer. My only issue with his list in the past was the lack of Food Chain. Now that he is using the combo and dominating the cEDH tourney (if rumors are to he believed; 4-0 if I am not mistaken) his list should be considered the gold standard. He is the best Sidisi player bar none and his primer is excellent

SBT Combo

Commander / EDH Voidia

SCORE: 17 | 17 COMMENTS | 4178 VIEWS | IN 9 FOLDERS

@chaosumbreon87: Done.

@Lilbrudder: Done.

@n0bunga: I looked at your Alesha list. While I'm not an expert on Alesha, Garta's list seems better overall. I've witnessed it in action a few times, and it's definitely been the most effective Alesha build I've seen in competitive pods. As for Necropotence, Alesha's ability isn't really strong enough to build exclusively around. She fills a role similar to Karador: Useful when things go south or in specific card interactions, but not a great build-around. It's not worth cutting one of the most powerful black cards because of bad synergy with her, especially given Mardu's often low density of good card draw.

quick question for partners, do we build for optimal partner chosen or do we build using that commander alone? i'm going to start kydele soon (surprised it wasnt already done) and need that cleared up before I start. Long list of t3 commanders without lists and whatnot

Not as important but can we get zedruu it's own bulletpoint? my small bit of CDO is killing me (you dont have to though). Thanks.

Pardon me, NarejED. I am wondering for a reevaluation with Purphoros, God of the Forge and his tier level at 2.5. even as a pure red commander, he has the capability to be in tier 2.

Also, I want to see where you would stack up my deck and if it would be good enough for your list. My deck:

Purphoros and Krenko (Multiplayer EDH Primer)

Commander / EDH ay.lobo

SCORE: 94 | 129 COMMENTS | 15075 VIEWS | IN 67 FOLDERS

I agree with using ay.lobo's list, WAY better than the current one

I don't think purphorous belongs in 2.5 let alone 2 ay.lobo I encourage you to look at the tier 2.5+ decks Purph simply can't match their speed, even if he is way more consistent then people think