T3 seems fine. She vastly increases the effectiveness of mana dorks, and seems like she would be a good elfball commander, being in the colors to tutor both selvala and umbral. Having access to mentor of the meek and Sylvan library is also a nice plus for a little extra card draw. And even not going infinite with SeL or arch, suddenly being multiple turns ahead in mana production does seem nice. Also aggravated assault.Can't wait, been wanting a new naya commander

T3 seems fine. She vastly increases the effectiveness of mana dorks, and seems like she would be a good elfball commander, being in the colors to tutor both selvala and umbral. Having access to mentor of the meek and Sylvan library is also a nice plus for a little extra card draw. And even not going infinite with SeL or arch, suddenly being multiple turns ahead in mana production does seem nice. Also aggravated assault.Can't wait, been wanting a new naya commander

sonnet666 daretti is a stax commander who would like to punish a bit more for people trying to interact, and let's you have something to do after you inevitably slaver lock someone, but red doesn't really do hate bear. Other than that we have ruric thar, and alesha, both of which are tool box type commanders anyway, so if you know someone is running azami, you can just, you know, let them kill themselves. Obviously some combos will be done in few enough iterations aimed at whoever is controlling him to get him off the board, but it like I said it stops eggs garbage, MOM, sometimes pili Pala, Selvala umbral types, dampers breya, and stops saheeli altar coating. The card is kinda genius actually

sonnet666 daretti is a stax commander who would like to punish a bit more for people trying to interact, and let's you have something to do after you inevitably slaver lock someone, but red doesn't really do hate bear. Other than that we have ruric thar, and alesha, both of which are tool box type commanders anyway, so if you know someone is running azami, you can just, you know, let them kill themselves. Obviously some combos will be done in few enough iterations aimed at whoever is controlling him to get him off the board, but it like I said it stops eggs garbage, MOM, sometimes pili Pala, Selvala umbral types, dampers breya, and stops saheeli altar coating. The card is kinda genius actually

Harsh Mentor -----> Ruric Thar Stax / Blow things up

is this set not as exciting as you guys wanted it to be? im kinda dissapointed with the edh options. the set looks very draftable, and fixes some of the problems in current standard, but only like 5 cards seem competitive in edh rn.none of the walkers are overly exceptional, except for big gideon in selvala exp. to untap all creatures with his +. second sun is (thankfully) over costed, embalm is cool, but doesnt really do anything, the rock that taps for 3 is too slow outside of atraxa. the monuments are meh, some of the aftermath stuff might make it into some decks. all opinion though.

The only card I am planning to use so far is a bicycle land, but that said, I only have two decks currently.

we still have one more 2c legend i think, and one more walker, lets hope for something spicy. on another not other than numot, who is a good land destruction commander, i was thinking melek and using temp fiss and seismic in the place of some of his rituals, any others who COULD do it at a consistent level?

I just have to ask this...

WHY is Kaalia of the Vast NOT a tier 2?

I'm sorry but that's just comical. She is extremely OP when she's built correctly.

Because her gameplan is incredibly fragile, inconsistent, and predictable. Very easy to shut down.

Yeah Kaalia really has no chance in the current meta. Before she even starts her song and dance she would be locked down or killed

Kaalia is so slow and clunky that the only thing it can do is to kill one particular opponent and then do nothing for the rest of the game.

n0bunga I have played hundreds of games with Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, even without the absurdly expensive cards such as Mishra's Workshop (although I did proxy them to see the difference in case I wanted to pick them up one at a time) and I can vouch for the fact that although you will not always have extraordinarily fast hands, Kozilek is much like Narset, Enlightened Master after the loss of partial paris mulligan, which is listed as a tier two deck. Although Kozilek can still function without the commander whereas Narset doesn't do much if someone plays a Moat or Stranglehold.

95+% of the game that I played with the deck, with my initial 7, free mulligan to 7, or mulligan to 6 with scry, I was able to find a hand that could cast an Eldrazi titan by turn 4 at the absolute latest, almost always with haste through a Lightning Greaves effect. I actually started keeping track of what turn I cast Kozilek on when I was improving the list for consistency, and it averaged turn 3. At least 2/3 the time when I played him on turn 2-5 I would also throw out a stax piece like Static Orb or Tangle Wire which almost always resulted in the table conceding.

I get that colorless may not appear to have the consistency of other decks, but given that most games, you will ramp into Kozilek and follow it with stax pieces and additional Eldrazi, there are so many redundant cards in the deck that it was incredibly rare for me to not find the pieces. I have played both Grand Arbiter Augustin IV and Thrasios, Triton Hero decks (based on the ones listed here) and had much more trouble with consistency in those decks that in my Kozilek deck.

And from experience playing against entire pods of competitive tier 1 decks, the combination of stax and Annihilator 4 was enough to lock most opposing decks out of the game, even through disruption and counterspells. The Mindslaver effects just made it easier because I understand how most high tiered decks work and I could use it against them by making their Doomsday pile and not casting the labman or using their Food Chain to exile their commander and not putting it back in the command zone.

And I have asked around with my local cEDH meta (consists of 2 Tazri, 1 Leovold, 1 Prossh, 1 Teferi, 2 Zur, and about 6 Tier 1.5 decks) and everyone agreed that my Kozilek list, even missing the hyper expensive pieces deserved a Tier 2 spot. A few even argued for Tier 1.5 but I don't honestly believe that he is quite as powerful as those due to the lack of good tutors and the occasional issues associated with ramp decks like drawing the wrong half of your deck or specific stax to shut you down.

I am willing to continue discussing if you are not convinced that it deserves the spot.

Lets not go that far... She's still a 4 drop that can blow up all lands and pull dragons out of your hand afterward.

The better question is why she's not T2.5. We dropped her to T3 because she was at the low end of T2 and ".5 tier were never going to happen," but then we made T1.5 and T2.5 and never bumped her back up. I think it's pretty fair to say that Kaalia is about the same level of competitive as Anafenza, Bruna, and Queen Marchesa, for instance.

There's actually quite a bit that could be corrected about the lower tiers right now:

• Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro is in T4, despite playing exactly like Seton, Krosan Protector, a T2.5 deck.

• Omnath, Locus of Mana and Titania, Protector of Argoth are in the same boat as Kaalia, demoted from the old T2, never given a chance to move into tier 2.5.

• Depala, Pilot Exemplar and Gonti, Lord of Luxury are both somehow in T3, despite their abilities being next to useless in EDH and nobody coming up with anything special for them since Kaladesh.

• Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, and Teneb, the Harvester could all probably be bumped to T2.5.

• Kemba, Kha Regent could probably be dropped to T4

thegigibeast and NarejED Haven't been commenting here much recently though, so it might take a while to agree to and implement any changes right now.

n0bunga Memnarch is one that I have seen a lot of people compare to Kozilek as a "colorless" commander with the upside of having access to blue. However, most Memnarch lists I have seen are just trying to get a lock into place and win the game from there and setting up a lock usually doesn't put your opponents under too much pressure except for occasional counterspells until the lock is assembled. Kozilek, Butcher of Truth runs in a similar way to an infect strategy by just putting so much pressure on your opponents so early to deal with your field that they will have to hold off on attempting or setting up their combo in order to not die. Combine this with stax and it becomes far harder for your opponents to stick around, much less force a combo through. Also consider that Kozilek immediately refills your hand on cast so even if he is countered or removed, the threat is going to be back and most opponents will have to dedicate important turns to stopping you instead of trying to win. I'll give you the point about Mishra's Workshop not doing much for casting Kozilek, but I have never had a problem with that in practice due to the absurd amount of mana rocks in the deck which the workshop can vomit out absurdly fast. And worst case scenario, an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth or Chromatic Lantern will allow it to tap for one mana for Kozilek.

The Mindslaver effects in Kozilek are not meant to be a permanent lock the way they are in Memnarch, they are just a way to "preemptively interact" with combo players, waste their answers to what you are doing, Time Walk your opponent, or to just guarantee victory from a leading position by tapping them out or sacrificing their field. You can even force them to actually do their combo and only kill your opponents and themselves with it, which has happened many times in practice against Tier1-1.5 decks. One Mindslaver with an Eldrazi titan is usually way more than enough to win the game, especially when played on turn 2-4. One last note on the Memnarch v Kozilek argument: Infinite colorless mana is far, far easier to obtain than infinite colored mana. Kozilek wins on the spot with infinite colorless mana and a sacrifice outlet, whereas a Grim Monolith and Power Artifact in Memnarch many not guarantee victory.

I will admit that I have never run Memnarch but I feel that they are going for entirely different things so the conceived connection is not really there. However, Paradox Engine is a ridiculous card so I could definitely see both being on a similar power level if Memnarch lists start to incorporate it by going into more of a Paradox/Scepter route.

How the heck is Geist of Saint Traft a Tier 5 deck? He is by no means a jank commander; I don't have an example list, but I know he's a very effective voltron commander with relevant colors. He should be T3 or T4 at least.

I would think Ezuri, Claw of Progress is T2.5 rather than Tier 3. My list is a little unrefined, but I've been able to hold off against a couple of the T1.5 decks, and win the game by turn four (Triumph of the Hordes is a nasty card).

See my list here:

For the Vicious Swarm - Ezuri Counter EDH

Commander / EDH Austin_Smith_of_Cards

SCORE: 3 | 6 COMMENTS | 1010 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER

You know what, never mind my list entry. Sampling through the example decks really showed the power level here.

I still don't think Geist of Saint Traft is T5 though.

If you want a good Kamahl, Fist of Krosa EDH deck primer for T3, look no further than this one. This guy keeps it up to date and has a very high power level.

Kamahl, Fist of Krosa EDH

Commander / EDH Cariddis

SCORE: 39 | 47 COMMENTS | 7393 VIEWS | IN 13 FOLDERS

Has anyone seen a Tasigur, the Golden Fang Goodstuffs deck in a top tier?

Good stuff isn't top tier, so no

The exception being Jhoira of the Ghitu. She can goodstuff by spewing eldrazi everywhere.

I mean most BUG and BUGx decks are essentially goodstuff decks since like 90% of the best cards are in those colors. But to be a top tier general you need a theme to go with that value. Goodstuff Tasigur is more of a thing in 1v1 since all the control cards are much better.

What are the pros and cons for Breya eggs and Breya Doomsday? I've already talked to n0bunga about the Doomsday build, and I want to compare it to the eggs build. In general, which build would make the deck more consistent?

Breya doomsday is stronger (faster, more consistent, more compact) than Breya eggs. With that being said Breya eggs is less risky (meaning you dont lose immediately if you get disrupted). Its possible with Paradox Engine dramatic scepter with eggs has improved substantially but eggs has always been a meh strategy in cEDH. I stopped brewing her a while ago so I am not up to date on her decks.

Alright, I'll test both decks. Thanks Lilbrudder!