@ Rienuaa: I read up on the tech of the deck you posted, and after familiarizing myself with it, I play tested it a few times, first goldfishing three matches, then trying it against various "Tried and true" tier 1 decks. Selvala definitely proved quite powerful, but not on par, at least not in the 1v1 matchups I quickly tested. Obviously it's nowhere near a fully accurate indication of power level, which would require several dozen matches of three players or more, each one with different decks, but it served its purpose.

Zur the Enchanter:

0 - 2.

Game 1: Both decks had an explosive early game. Selvala dropped Armageddon turn 3. Zur was able to recover from it thanks to a turn 2 play of Land Drop #2 --> Sol Ring --> Talisman of Dominance --> Lightning Greaves. He exiled Selvala with Path to Exile during the end step of her 4th turn. Zur resolved turn 4 and immediately tutored out Nevermore naming Selvala. By this point Selvala's deck had a decent board state of small elves out and almost no hand left. She was unable to recover in time to stop the Zur chain.

Game 2: Selvala was blocked by a turn 2 Mana Drain. She was unable to recover in time. Once again Zur won via a chain of enchantments.

The Mimeoplasm:

1 - 2

Game 1: Mimeo mulliganed into a God hand and combo'd off turn on turn 3 with Buried Alive into Exhume.

Game 2: Selvala hit Bloom Tender with Swords to Plowshares. A turn 3 Winter Orb slowed Plasm down enough to allow her to "soft combo" with Umbral Mantle and get in for an extremely unexpected 21 commander damage. (I know that's not you designed the deck to normally win, but the option was too perfect to pass up).

Game 3: Again Plasm outraced her with the main Buried Alive combo.

Derevi:

0 - 2

Aside from playing the mirror, this was one of the most painful set of games I've ever used Derevi in. Stax vs. Stax is always irritating, but having two creature-based prison decks where one utilizes incidental life gain compounded the horror, making both matches last over 10 turns. In both cases, Derevi was able to set up a superior board state (game 1 concluded when Derevi cast Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite into Sakashima the Impostor. Game 2, Derevi managed to set up a successful Stasis lock and keep it running long enough to punch for lethal). it was rather humorous, because at one point, both decks had a Yisan, the Wanderer Bard and Selvala, Explorer Returned on field, and both ended up drawing into Fyndhorn Elves on the same turn.

Again, these tests were more to gather personal knowledge on Selvala than to garner any sort of conclusive results.

Based on what I now know, I reached the following conclusion: Selvala is quite strong as a commander; stronger than I had initially believed. But I feel she's still not quite tier 1 material. Both Derevi and Brago outperform her marginally in prison archetypes. She's for sure a very solid tier 2 though.

Decks used for testing:Zur: Zur's Proxied Parade of PainMimeoplasm Muscle PlasmDerevi Derevi and Brago: The Romance of the Millennium

@NarejED

Don't be afraid to post links to your decks or others if it is to support your explanations. The only thing I don't want is people coming here and posting things like: "hey check out my The Mimeoplasm tier 1 deck!"

I will update the rules!

Spelled "would" wrong in the description.

I know it sounds like I dismissed Daretti, Scrap Savant, but the only mono red that I think has a chance to sit in tier 2 is Krenko. That said, Daretti is the commander that I think I will build next. I really want to use my Su-Chi in a deck.

Seems way more balanced than the old one.

to expensive......it is pretty much people with names, which i like,

Why is Sliver Overlord tier 2? I have sliver overlord as my sliver commander and would be interested in knowing why it's tier 2 status. Is there some kind of sliver chain you need to pull off like how Zur has an enchantment chain? I really want to power up my sliver deck if I can.

Lanzo493 overlord is not tier 2. List is new, and copied from another location, so we are in the beginning stages of sorting it out. Pick some that you think need changing that you don't run, and make a case for them.

I named my commanders up a little high if you want to give your opinion on them that would be cool.

Sliver Overlord is Tier 2 because he's primary used to head Sliver Tribal, which is a tier 2 deck.

Slivers are powerful, and can dominate casual tables, but they're too slow for competitive metas. It's all but impossible to pull off table-killing wins with Slivers before turn 6. That, and in EDH, board wipes are incredibly prevalent, and they have a difficult time recovering from them. Cataclysm, Terminus, Merciless Eviction, Toxic Deluge, Final Judgement, All Is Dust, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and several other heavily played board wipes completely shut down the deck.

TLDR: Slivers are too slow and easily disrupted to be considered tier 1.

Thanks, the evaluation of your commanders will come soon!

NarejED I think the overlord belongs in tier 3 though, not tier 2.

Angus M is not tier 4

And Angus Mackenzie is back from the old thread!!! Gonna edit when back from school, a lot of edits are waiting for tonight! And the ranking of Didgeridooda's commander!

@ Didgeridooda: Yeah, I could see Hivelord being bumped to tier 3. I also like the idea of using it as a standard for judging tier 3 decks, though I actually feel Hivelord is on the upper end of that tier. It's a fairly good measuring stick, given how well known the deck is known. Anything significantly stronger --> Tier 2, while anything on equal or slightly lesser footing --> Tier 3.

Also, I don't know how I missed these last times I combed the list:

Hokori, Dust Drinker --> Tier 3. His ability is superb, but mono-white doesn't possess the tools to take full advantage of them at a competitive level. He's best used by Derevi, Brago, Selvala, Roon and other W-x commanders as one of the 99, rather than at the helm of his own deck.

Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter --> Tier 3. Several powerful, synergistic ability, but the mana cost is extremely limiting. Orzhov notoriously has poor mana acceleration, so it's difficult to consistently cast him consistently before turn 4. He then has to sacrifice board advantage just to get in for lethal voltron. The removal ability is nice as a control tool, but again, by the time it's relevant, he's already behind most true tier 1 and two decks.

Sigarda, Host of Herons --> Tier 3. Her ability is too situational most of the time. She falls into the same category as Linvala, Keeper of Silence: A useful sideboard tool. She ends up being a dumb beater in 90% of actual matches.

Skullbriar, the Walking Grave --> Tier 4, possibly 3. His abilities are just too cute for commander. Trying to force voltron with him yields only minor success. Aside from the powerful color identity, he doesn't bring much to the table. No idea how I managed to overlook him last time.

Nekusar, the Mindrazer --> Tier 2. Yes, his "Wheel and Deal" strategy has been beaten to death, and can be easily stopped. But he still ends up being quite strong. With the advent of Waste Not, his normal deck got a massive power upgrade. He can usually wheel the table to death the turn after he's cast thanks to it. Turn 4 wins are normal. Turn 5 wins are almost guaranteed, even with a fair amount of hate directed at him. Having an early-game control suite to assure he sets up properly and keeps the faster combo decks at bay allows him to compete with moderate success at higher levels to play, making him worthy of Tier 2.

Argh, sorry for double posting, but I forgot something in my last comment.

Regarding Daretti, Scrap Savant and the argument surrounding his tier placement:

I personally feel he is worthy of his current Tier 2 position. Yes, red is notoriously weak by itself in Commander, having only minimal draw, poor stack interaction, and generally having weak answers. However, Daretti has proven to be a surprisingly strong and resilient mid-combo commander.

Due to his massive reliance on artifacts, an optimized Daretti deck runs a huge slew of mana rocks and other early-game ramp, allowing him to consistently resolve turn 2-3. Assuming a proper mulligan, a good Daretti play can look something like turn 1: land into Sol Ring. turn 2: Land into Daretti, using his +2 to pitch Blightsteel Colossus. Turn 3: tap Sol Ring, sac it to Daretti's -2 to return Blightsteel. (Note that this combo can also go off turn 2 with a slightly better opening hand).

That's just one of many possible explosive early plays that Daretti is capable of. Turn 4 wins are fairly commonplace.Turn 3 wins are possible. I suspect turn 2 wins have been pulled off with him, but I haven't witnessed them yet. His main power lies in his resiliency though. Even if one or more key card is countered, he can rapidly bounce back the following turn. Even mass artifact hate is only a moderate setback, since he can recur at least one of his key artifacts the following turn roughly 80% of the time. Daretti can be equated to a weaker Arcum Dagsson in a lesser color identity.

I definitely think that Yisan, the Wanderer Bard should be higher than tier 4. I'm not certain that he is tier 2 material, but tier 3 for sure. He very quickly gets out of hand, and can chain up into massive threats very quickly. If he is not answered right away, he is liable to take over a game.

How exactly is Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter tier 2? I realize there are some combos with him but I don't see it as Tier 2. He's got a massive cost and no green to support it.

NarejED: Blightsteel Colossus shuffles into library...

PlattBonnay: I'll second Yisan, the Wanderer Bard for tier 3. I think it's got some game against tier 1/2. I'd definitely say no to tier 2 though.

It's a potential example to demonstrate what Daretti is capable of, not an actual occurrence.

And Vish Kal isn't tier 2. He needs to be moved down. He's still there as a remnant from the original tier list created by Pmonk. I actually just recommended he be bumped to tier 3 earlier this evening.

Rafiq absolutely needs to be higher than tier 3. I don't know a single person that doesn't immediately groan/freak out when Rafiq hits the command zone. Having access to bant gives him explosive starts that he can carry through with all the removal and card he needs. Get any kind of equipment on him and it's game over, pretty much immediately. Of the voltron commanders, he's probably the one that hits the hardest and most consistently outside of voltron Zur builds

Alright, I'd just feel more comfortable putting out accurate information is all shrugs

I do agree with tier 2 for Daretti but I have the deck which makes me a bit more bias.

And there are actually quite a few in tier 4 that I'm very confused about: , Anowan the Ruin Sage, Eladamri, Wort the Raidmother, Ulasht, and Vorel should all move up to tier 3 imo. Angus McKenzie needs to go even higher, honestly. A truly tuned Angus McKenzie deck is a piece of work.

As a point of order, the only one of these generals I play is Ulasht. I just happen to have seen these decks operate at levels much above level 4.

MTWEmperor: As a fellow Daretti player, I can confirm the power level. Mono-red stax with Daretti is crazy, and you can really control the board with all the wheel effects you get double use out of. Honestly, Daretti's the only red deck where the rummaging mechanic is actually net gain in card advantage. Considering it can hold its own at a table with Rafiq, Derevi, and Captain Sisay (which I have done) as either an aggressive beatdown OR control deck (which is still weird to me) is great because it gives the deck a lot of play. It allows it to attack on different axes beyond just combat, something red otherwise is sorely missing.