Solid points. I can agree that having two formats would lessen the likelihood of a player of one type of commander to additionally play the other or move to only the other type.

Getting rid of banned as a commander was a really dumb decision. There is no reason Braids, Leo, or rofellos cannot be part of the 99 and they simply become very good creatures when you cant cast them multiple times a game

Really goes to show how unbalanced it is to share banlists for 1v1 and multiplayer...

Where is everyone thinking Samut is gonna end up?

We tentatively agreed on Tier 3 (see around page 199 in the archive). She is in decent enough colors and is a haste anthem.

I just playtested someone's elf ball build and it's a pretty good turn 5 kill probably 90% of the time. This was only about 15 games worth of playtesting though.

n0bunga: Those cards are much weaker without some of the ridiculous enablers. I dont know much about upheaval, but all the rest would be fine in multiplayer. There are far more degenerate cards that are not banned.

LTmiller, there are a lot of decks in T3 that consistently goldfish turn 5 wins actually. Sram, Titania, Teneb, Zurgo (essentially), Sachi, Mikaeus, Kozilek, Ezuri...

It mostly comes down to how well they do it compared to the higher tiers, crossed with how well they control the board at the same time.

Naya colors aren't really known for control, so Samut might have an uphill battle breaking into T2.5.

Why is Tymna the Weaver still tier 3? Phyrexian Arena in the command zone is a solid tier 2.0 at least, and most hatebears pilots agree she's way better than Karador.

p0megranates is totally right. I personally think Tymna is tier 1.5 at worst. This stax deck is probably the strongest stax deck currently aside from Teferi, which is not really stax.

Tymna and Tana dance under the crimson moon.

Commander / EDH* infiniteimoc

SCORE: 8 | 6 COMMENTS | 1450 VIEWS | IN 3 FOLDERS

Kaalia is commander centric, which is very fragile since almost all the giant fatties are horrible to have in hand without her. Even if you can get her ability going Angel/Demon/Dragon beats folds hard to many other decks. She lacks about 5 things necessary to be competitive outside Local Game Shops. Even if she was stronger Thrasios, Tymna and friends kind of killed all the Bant/Naya/Mardu commanders in competitive circles (except maybe alesha and to a lesser extent Derevi) since there are pretty much a strictly better option for those color scheme archetypes in 4 colors.

Zenaku17 here you go: Kefnet. That is also a kefnet nomination for tier 3.

Also, obligitory repost of my earlier commanders for nominations:

krenko-Krenko

hapatra-Hapatra

Hazezon Tamar-Hazezon

Samut v1-combo base

Samut v2-dork base

I'd also like to throw my Samut list in for consideration. Samut Competitive Combo mine is a little different than chaosumbreon87's in that I'm doing Devoted Druid and persist combos with a little infinite combat thrown in.

Although other decklist name is so much better than mine.

Why is hope of ghiraphur tier 4?

A colorless general is severely limited in its options when it is not also a game-ending threat, so Hope cannot rise above 4. However, it is a very disruptive element for spell-based decks, making it relevant enough to merit non-Tier 5 status. Considering that you can cast it repeatedly, it will be somewhat relevant in any game.

Wait, so what youre saying is just cuz it isnt a bomb in itself, it cant be above tier 4? Cuz a stax build is very helpful with hope, especially with the low cast cost. I know it isnt nearly optimal but ive tried a stax build with it, and the sacrifice ability is usually used. Hopeful Stax

anyone building a Bontu the Glorified deck?

Im still thinking of a proper combo for bontu but when ive figured out the last pieces i can decide between nin deathmantle combos, nooze combos, and some combination involving bitter ordeal

chaosumbreon87 what I have been finding and researching looks like a lot of fun. One combo I saw was with Dread Summons , Army of the Damned, and Throne of the God-Pharaoh. And with Cabal Coffers, Crypt of Agadeem and all the tutors in black and all the sacs with Bontu it could do a lot of damage. Also powering up bontu with artifacts since she has menace you could go for lethal commander damage. especially if there are artifacts that could giver her trample and double strike, which I assume there are.

the problem with many of the options you just mentioned is high CMC low payoff for the cEDH environment. throne sounds good and both cabal coffers and crypt of agadeem sound good but voltron is not really a good win con. If I could think of a decent reanimator build ill test it out but as it sounds now, it might nooze reanimator

chaosumbreon87 I would have a decent amount of mana rocks and also artifacts that reduce the manna cost down. thats just one combo I thought looked fun.

So I guess I am biased because I play Gaddock Teeg, and here's the obligatory, "I feel like my deck should be higher than tier 3," statement for you.

So basically here's my argument, with Gaddock Teeg in the command zone, it is implied that we're going to be playing a game with mostly lower-costed noncreature spells. Right at the get-go, I'm perfectly happy playing a creature deck against wraths, especially most of that garbage in my neighboring "tier 3" play. The only wraths that honestly pose a threat are Cyclonic Rift and Toxic Deluge, both of which I can play around with Sanctum Prelate, and in Toxic Deluge's case specifically, Angel of Jubilation. I think that perhaps the strongest card against me is Ixidron, which is absent in most tier 1-1.5 lists.

I know pitting two decks against eachother in 1v1 is a horrible metric for pod quality, but I've 1v1'd Teferi, Temporal Archmage and held a positive win-ratio against it over the course of many games. I've gone 1v1 against Yidris Storm and absolutely stomped it with a 90% winrate. I generally go 50/50 against Tazri. Before Leovold was banned, I was hashing out at least 50%+ winrate. These lists I'm playing against are very close to the tier one lists posted up top.

The rest of the tier 1 list is about 40/60 at worst. Generally, against top tier combo, I stand my own against the field, since I have a hate card for all of them, and most of them seriously hate teeg and his friends. Against stax, I'm not feeling great, but I'm also not feeling terrible. The Blood Moon can sometimes be a bit hairy to play around, but not entirely too difficult. I'm not saying Teeg is tier 1. But I can say for certain it's not tier 3. I would dominate a tier 3 metagame as it stands here.

I'll leave my personal list out of the comments. I'm curious how threatening a Gaddock Teeg hatebear combo deck sounds to you guys? Protean hulk has been helpful, as it has with other decks too obviously. I've had combo wins as early as turn 2. Opinions?

n0bunga i think i understand where you are coming from, i just still think at least tier 3.5 would be best placed for hope. But i may just be a little biased, who knows? tier 4 just seems too low for its potential, not really sure how to explain why

@Athraithe The decklists provided show what Hope has to compete against in tier 3, not to mention higher tiers. Colorless is bad, voltron is bad except for Bruna stax, and any super-refined list sporting at least one color is going to have access to some degenerate shit that a colorless deck can't deal with. If Hope is good in your playgroup that's fine, but this is a cEDH tier list.

Re: Gaddock Teeg: It's way worse than Captain Sisay and cEDH doesn't have that many 4+ CMC noncreature spells.

Anyway, has anyone ever tried to build a competitive/refined Mayael? I think I have one, but looking through TappedOut and failing to find Survival/Loyal Retainers lists or Blood Moon lists makes me think I might have a monopoly on good Mayael lists haha. Mayael Pubstomp