Check out the leaked commanders! Now we have three new 5-color janks, one 3-color jank, and a whopping tier 3 UW spellslinger aggro commander.

Ur-Dragon is cute, but the mana cost makes it too unwieldy, probably to the point of Tier 5. Ramos is interesting but the once per turn limitation probably makes it Tier 4 at best, since it allows you to chain spells for a bit. O-Kagachi is a 4-turn clock with Flying-Trample. Unfortunately, the attacked-you rider makes the triggered ability largely irrelevant since no one will attack you (which no one would anyway since you have a GIANT FLYING BLOCKER). Now that I think about it, the design is just terrible without haste. It will probably be relegated to Tier 4 just because it is efficient and 5-color. Wasitora is also cute. Like O-Kagachi it is an efficient creature with Flying-Trample, thought the 5-turn clock hurts its strength. The sacrifice is nice, since it messes with low creature-count commander-centric decks...which only seem to be Arcum and Brago. The token is decent for Stax shenanigans. I can see a Stax build of Wasitora in Tier 4, MAYBE Tier 3.

And then there's Taigam. He is AMAZING. Likely Tier 3. Maybe Tier 2.5 if his ideal strategy is fast enough. The uncounterability is nice. He could be a more counter-heavy GAAIV that has something like a Dramatic Scepter win instead of RIP Helm. The Rebound part is cool, like a delayed Yidris. I like that the Rebound spells are also uncounterable if Taigam is still around. The 4 toughness makes him harder to block and kill with mana dorks. I also like that you can suicide him and cast some uncounterable Rebound instants before he dies to damage. He has a lot of potential. The Dragon part of him is irrelevant.

A knock against him as part of the 99 is that white mana symbol. This severely limits the number of spellslinger decks that can run him. The top decks that COULD and actually MAY run him would be Narset, Scion, Zur, Tazri, Breya, Atraxa, and GAAIV (maybe a few others). At 4 mana, Taigam costs too much and does too little (immediately) to justify the large investment. He feels too slow for Zur, Tazri, and Breya. He messes with Narset's curve/race to drop her (besides the flavor-fail). He is cute in Scion, but, again, does not seem to justify spending 4 mana. Taigam's most likely homes look to be Atraxa and GAAIV. Being a human is nice for the Angel of Glory's Rise win in Atraxa. He can also help Dread Return actually land (though it just makes him a more expensive Grand Abolisher). GAAIV can drop him for 2 mana, which justifies the effect (again, the main comparison is Grand Abolisher). Since Atraxa and GAAIV have somewhat low spell counts, Taigam may not be added to them for the uncounterability part. Since he also adds Rebound, Taigam can double up the powerful spells Atraxa and GAAIV DO run. Overall, I rate his inclusion in the 99 of competitive decks to be...drumroll..."eh, maybe."

Unfortunately, since most of the good spellslingers that are not Zur do not include white, most decks do not have a high enough spell count to make Taigam exceptionally desirable.

This was a long-ass post; I do not feel like looking it over. Have fun parsing it! :)

I was talking about the only dragon to interest me out of these new offerings (Ramos) with a friend (greyninja shoutout) and I said "Casual amaze-balls, competitive trash" and that's what I rate most of them.

I'm not as high on Taigam on a personal level, but I agree he fits in nicely in GAAIV though TheDevicer has more experience with him so I'll default to his opinion on it.

I actually want to nominate taigam for t2.5 if not tier 3 status. The fact that he just needs to attack, not connect means that the rebound is so much more likely. Im gonna try to throw together a list when I get the chance but as an example, high tide and storm lists- if you fumble your storm count continues next turn. In fact you may just win on the next cycle. The main reason I say t2.5 is that he helps the plan and stops countermagic is nuts for storm. Next, if you get stuck, seeing as though you can save countermagic to survive next turn, you can win on the spot at next upkeep. That being said, you might need 3 turns to get him online so thats looking at a turn 5-7 win. Not tier 1 or 1.5 and debatable if it can compete with tier 2. I can see competition with 2.5 and 3 though.

That being said, of the other commanders, tier 5 with them (maybe ramos turn 4? he seems like a good progenitus or door enabler though

Again going to renominate the same 5 lists Ive nominated for the past couple of months.

What tier would you categorize Samut, Voice of Dissent in?

Ramos is essentially an expensive mana rock as a commander. If it wasn't for the "once per turn" bit I could see some storm shenanigans, but meh. T4 probably.

As for Taigam, a lot of draw spells become much better when you give them rebound. Cantrips would net you card advantage for instance. Maybe a storm deck that spreads out over two turns or something? What combos are there in blue/white that you could draw into?

RIP Helm and Dramatic Scepter are the first ones that come to mind. Future Sight Top shenanigans. Power Artifact/Rings and Monoliths. Insert other non-instant non-sorcery and therefore counterable blue combo here...OH OH High Tide AND Palinchron!!!

Taigam has no real use in GAAIV lists imo.

On a related note, I'd also like to once more point out the clunkiness of Future Sight, Helm of Obedience, and Power Artifact combos in Arbiter.

I seriously think there hasn't been enough exploration of GAAIV outside of BigLupu for a long while and I'm not satisfied with his list (although I must admit his latest version is miles above his past ones)

Now that I think about it, wouldn't the best wincon for Taigam be Aetherflux Reservoir? You are guaranteed two casts from every spell, so Taigam plus a bunch of Last Words and uncounterable Fabricate and would always resolve Reservoir. The only issue would be killing multiple opponents.

Ravos is tier 3 at worst and probably a lot better imo. He will probably top out in the tier 2 range once someone figures out how to abuse him. The bar for a 5 color general is pretty low tbh. Hes probably better than sliver queen and alara baby and people play them competitively and being colorless means he will hit the table super early and he can one shot people pretty easily.

If you cast life's legacy on him and activate his ability in response does it count the power before or after the counters are removed?

I saw something for Ravos on facebook, that involved him, Sandsteppe Mastodon, Basalt Monolith, and Eldrazi Displacer. It's a few blinking shenanigans that net 4 mana every iteration, and is very abusable, but you would have to have a way to use all that mana readily available...

Lilbrudder this is part of the rules text for the card you mentioned. "Players can only respond once this spell has been cast and all its costs have been paid. No one can try to destroy the creature you sacrificed to prevent you from casting this spell."

Based on the first line of that, you cant activate in response to the cast of Life's Legacy

Ravos also makes infinite mana with Deadeye Navigator, Naya Charm, and Reborn Hope. Both combos are pretty janky, but seeing as most of the cards are somewhat playable on their own and Ravos has the benefit of being 5 colors, I would think he's at least tier 3 material.

Ramos.. Sorry. lol

Lilbrudder, & Athraithe Ramos has a mana ability, and therefore you have a chance to activate it as part of the process of casting Life's Legacy as per rule 601.2g ("If the total cost includes a mana payment, the player then has a chance to activate mana abilities (see rule 605, Mana Abilities). Mana abilities must be activated before costs are paid.")

However, since mana abilities are activated before the costs are paid in rule 601.2h, Life's Legacy would look at his last known information as he existed on the battlefield, and Ramos would be sacrificed after the counters were removed.

LTmiller, The only problem with that is that if Sandsteppe Mastodon's ETB resolves at any time that Ramos has 2 to 4 on him, the five counters go on to Sandsteppe Mastodon instead of him. Personally I'd prefer to use something like Verdurous Gearhulk and just storm though my deck for the 5th counter.

It's worth noting that Ajani, Mentor of Heroes and Atraxa, Praetors' Voice both give 5 counters as well.

sonnet666 isnt that basically what i said, albeit my was shorter?

Also the gearhulk does give 5 counters, 1 for casting it and 4 for its etb

Ohthenoises - Gearhulk only grants 4 counters during the loop, since Displacer does not recast it.

Athraithe No. You were talking about responding to Life's Legacy after it has been cast and is on the stack. I'm talking about using Ramos's mana ability as part of the casting process for Life's Legacy.

Activating mana abilities during the casting process of a spell is an entirely different game process than responding to that spell while it's on the stack (i.e. you don't have priority), and it can lead to very different outcomes. For example, this is why Lion's Eye Diamond stipulates that you need to activate it as an instant, or how you're able to sac Mindslicer to Ashnod's Altar as part of the payment of Sudden Spoiling and force everyone to discard their hands with Split Second in effect.

It turns out that it has the same outcome in this case, but I thought it best to tell Lilbrudder that, since you didn't actually answer his question with your response.

merrowMania I was referring to the first cast not the loop. Missed that you guys moved on to talking about the loop.

This is a good resource on the intricacies of casting spells.

I run azami stacks deck that i would consider tier 1.5 due to the new release of powerful artifacts specifically paradox engine. I would like to argue that paradox engine made her equal with dagson

The moment the engine was spoiled, the first thing people mentioned was her. She's an OK engine user. That's about it. Engine and Dramatic Reversal improved her game a ton, but Arcum's approach is more streamlined.

One thing that I will add though is that because cEDH is such a small community, there are lots of generals that have stagnated. For some deck, it's even clear that past lists could be improved, but no one's interested enough in doing it for anything to happen. However, for probably a 3rd of the people on this thread, Azami served as a stepping stone in their groups or they themselves piloted Azami when they were first entering cEDH. She's just a damn popular commander and lots of people play her even in cEDH. I'd be really surprised if Azami lists hadn't been explored a ton so far. Meanwhile we have generals like Rashmi, Eternities Crafter who get totally ignored by a large chunk of us.

As the one who has done much of the exploring for Azami in cEDH I will say that Azami is a better Engine user than Sisay and Arcum when it comes to actually using the Engine. For Azami getting the Engine requires her to play tutors or have Azami out draw into the engine. I don't really see these as a downside, but they definitely make Azami's plan in acquiring Engine a bit more of a hassle than Arcum or Sisay. However, when Azami does get Engine onto the board she is a damn near unstoppable force if you build her correctly. You will almost always be running more counter magic and instant speed spells than your opponents. You'll be able to keep your draw coming so that you can combo out. I believe Arcum and Sisay have decent ways of protecting their combos, but I don't believe they are as consistent or thorough as Azami's. I'm not vouching for Azami to be in tier 1.5 these are just my observations after playing Azami exclusively for 3 ish years.