Huh, even Paramount is jumping on the Meren hype train. He has her listed under what he calls 'superb tier'. Link.

I feel like the Meren discussion was already beaten to death, but I'll reiterate my usual opinion on her anyway.

Meren is essentially Karador, Ghost Chieftain without access to white. Their decks play out in much the same fashion. Meren only suffer slightly, losing access to Loyal Retainers shenanigans, Boonweaver Giant combo, and a few utility cards like Aven Mindcensor and Aura Shards. In exchange, she has a lower casting cost (early game) and a (slightly) more powerful ability. The nerfs outweigh the buffs, putting her in Tier 2. She's still one of the stronger commanders in the Tier though. She's easily the strongest BG commander, and plays a brutally strong midrange game with a Necrotic Ooze or Mike and Trike combo finisher.

Expanding on what NarejED said, another superior option to Meren is Mimeoplasm, who also tries to go for the Necrotic Oooze + Mike Trike combo, but has access to BLUE, and can replace a reanimate spell easier than Meren can. In return, he gives far less long term value, but long term isn't the plan when you are playing competetive EDH. There's no reason for Meren to be tier 1 when the options of Karador in WBG and Mimeoplasm in BUG are superior options and are in that tier.

You know what? I've nothing more to say about Meren. There's nothing more to be said, as I believe has been made clear already--myself arriving at this conclusion after having attempted to say more about her, of course.

Let's discuss the competitive potential of another commander, perhaps. If nothing else, I can take it as a learning opportunity--I mean, I'll admit that I certainly don't get much in the way of hands-on competitive commander experience, sadly. In part because I lack the funds, and in part because everyone else around me lacks the funds, too. And it hasn't been a rockless diplomatic road attempting to convince everyone that privately proxying Candelabra of Tawnos is fair if everyone can privately proxy Candelabra of Tawnos, if you know what I mean.

Enough about me, though. I've mentioned this commander in the past (in passing), and, actually, I've been working on developing an optimized list for him: Seton, Krosan Protector. Outwardly, pretty ridiculous, I know--but ask yourself: If you replaced all instances of 'druid' with 'elf', would this be a competitive commander? I would like to take this moment to point out that a considerable number of elves are simultaneously druids--even tribal elf staples, such as Elvish Archdruid and Priest of Titania. Granted, their synergies run off of elves, but, again, many elves are simultaneously druids, so you're almost multitasking, in a way. If Ezuri, Renegade Leader Elfball into Genesis Wave/Primal Surge/Tooth and Nail is what makes him a tier two commander, then I'm comfortable with saying that Seton could accomplish much the same in a manner that would at least be consistent with a tier three degree of competitiveness. Sure, it's likely that this is simply a worse variant on the same overall strategy, but that's what Roon of the Hidden Realm is to Brago, King Eternal, and he's still tier two.

As it so happens, I have a list prepared to show you. Well, 'prepared' is one word for it, anyway. I haven't organized it as per the standard seven-by-nine categorizations, and I am in no way saying that it's optimized, but I've done some preliminary goldfishing, and, while the deck occasionally struggles with the same problem which all dedicated ramp decks suffer--that being a lack of appropriate sinks as compared to the amount of mana you've ramped yourself for--I've still found that the deck goes off on turn five or six somewhat reliably. And, yes, it's entirely possible to whiff completely on Primal Surge--the deck simply needs some supporting instants and sorceries to function properly. So it goes. Here's the list itself: Begin the Hymns

All that aside, I believe this proves Seton to be, at the very least, a more competitive commander than was previously thought, by and large. Your thoughts?

HOW THE HECK DID Phage the Untouchable MAKE TIER 5 IT IS A TERRIBLE COMMANDER!!!!

if you think Braids, Conjurer Adept is tier 5 you obviously never played against a braid's deck it is at least tier 3 or you've only played group hug braid's

Phage the Untouchable is somewhat sorta kind of viable as a commander now that she can be put in your hand with Command Beacon. Now that I think of that she could be kind of fun as a casual commander. Black certainly doesnt lack for tutors and Phage is a guaranteed one shot if you give her evasion which very few commanders can do. She might even be tier 4. Beginning to brew starting now!

NoOneOfConsequence I will definitely playtest your brew and let you know what I think. I have always been intrigued by druids and it sounds like it has potential.

I was not aware that people considered Reaper King to be a tier two commander. Is it just a reasonable commander to head a 5-colour deck if you don't feel like running Scion of the Ur-Dragon, or are the combos it can enable actually good enough to land it in tier two? Are there any distinct advantages to running Reaper King over other five-colour commanders?

Looks like we've had enough discussion for another round of proposed changes. I'm going to gather the Tier placement changes brought up recently that I support, as well as a few Commanders I personally feel should be moved. Each one with be accompanied by a paragraph explaining my reasoning. Please respond with your own reasons for or against any proposed changes that strike your fancy.

One things have been somewhat finalized, I'll try to get Gigi to update the list using the new method.

Sidisi, Brood Tyrant --> Tier 2. She's been discussed quite a lot really, and I haven't seen any compelling arguments against her yet. While certainly not as strong as The Mimeoplasm, she's quite capable of leading a reanimator build and being a (somewhat) useful piece to it. The deck itself performs at a Tier 2 level. Credit to wagnerr2

Feldon of the Third Path --> Tier 3. as FAMOUSWATERMELON brought up, he's quite strong. While red doesn't have access to a whole lot of graveyard fillers, it has enough to enable some strong plays with him. Like all graveyard-based builds, he's capable of acquiring a huge amount of value in the midgame. He's too slow for Tier 2/inconsistent for Tier 2, but he's stronger than a good chunk of the current Tier 3 commanders.

Zurgo Helmsmasher --> Tier 3. Not sure how he ended up in Tier 4. He's the third strongest Mardu commander after Kaalia and Alesha. His ingrained indestructibility makes him a fairly sturdy equipment voltron commander while also making most wrath effects one-sided. His interaction with World Slayer is absolutely hilarious. Again, credit to wagnerr2 for catching it.

Yisan, the Wanderer Bard --> Tier 2. I was a bit skeptical at first, but seeing an optimized his in action in a full pod has changed my mind. Like Captain Sisay, he plays best in a toolbox build that functions almost like a control shell, with creature-based answers for nearly every situation at various mana costs. Unlike Sisay, however, even as he's answering threats, he's rapidly building towards his win condition (usually Hornet Queen/Avenger of Zendikar into Craterhoof Behemoth). He's also surprisingly fast, goldfishing wins on turn 5 average in 4-man pods. He's rare in that he actually gets stronger the larger the table is, with Quirion Ranger, Scryb Ranger, Seedborn Muse, and other cards allowing him to use opponent's turns to further himself. Thanks to his low CMC and non-reliance on his hand, he received the largest relative buff of any single commander with the changing of the mulligan rules. He is weak to disruption, but his speed and resourcefulness compensate enough to, in my mind, make him worthy of Tier 2. Credits yet again to wagnerr2 for starting the discussion there.

Titania, Protector of Argoth --> Tier 3. She has some cute combos, and can accrue value off of some forms of stax, but overall, she's too slow and inconsistent post-Partial Paris to really be deserving of Tier 2. Yisan seems much more worthy of the spot. Credits to Aggro-Blaster.

Seton, Krosan Protector --> Tier 3. There's enough support to make him function as a weaker Ezuri, Renegade Leader as NoOneOfConsequence pointed out. The deck list Consequence constructed seems consistent with Tier 3 power levels.

Personal suggestions:

Mikaeus, the Unhallowed --> Tier 3. Mikaeus is, at his core, a devoted combo commander. He runs some midrange support in the form of stax tools that allow him to generate value off of cards like Fleshbag Marauder, but ultimately he ends up playing similarly to Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: Assemble a combo as quickly as possible, win. With the death of Partial Paris, he's no longer fast enough to make it in Tier 2 as a devoted combo deck, and while his ability is strong, it doesn't make up for his weaknesses. 3BBB is painful when the ability to mulligan into Mana Crypt, two swamps, Dark Ritual, and Necropotence is gone.

Teferi, Temporal Archmage --> Tier 1. While his abilities aren't quite as powerful as Azami, Lady of Scrolls's, his deck archetype more than makes up the difference. Mana denial is the strongest form of control in multiplayer thanks to its ability to affect all opponents. Teferi plays one of the meanest prison decks in existence, capable of building locks starting on turn one, comboing out on turn five with The Chain Veil, or simply hard-casting Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur or Void Winnower the turn after he's cast. He starts generating value the moment he touches field, his +1 creating card advantage while his -1 enables entire hands to be dumped in a single turn. (Yes, I know. It's ironic that I just suggested a commande rbe demoted because of his CMC, then turned around and suggested another commander with the same cost be promoted. Call me inconsistent.)

Other possible demotions: Memnarch

@SaberTech Reaper King combos with cards like Conspiracy and Xenograft to turn any creature you play into a Vindicate.

@yavimaya_eldred Are those interactions effective enough for a tier two spot? First you need to get Reaper King out, then find and cast one of the enchantments, then cast a creature. And for all that, you get to destroy a permanent. It does get a little more economical for each creature you cast after that though.

I guess what I'm trying to find out is if Reaper King is considered a powerful commander because of its abilities and the combos that specifically utilize them, or mostly because it is five colours and you would be able to build the deck with any sort of quick combo that you wanted (such as a Hermit Druid deck).

It does offer some mid-late game utility, I'll give it that, so I can see how people would opt to run it over some of the other five-colour commanders.

If you know of any optimized deck lists for Reaper King would you be able to link some? I've been mulling over the possibility of building a Reaper King deck for a while now, which is why I'm asking these questions. I'd like to see what people consider a strong deck list because it would make it easier to decide if it is worth investing in the cards for building a strong five-colour mana base.

@sabertech

I haven't actually seen a version of this deck but it seems pretty potent with Reaper King: a changing deck. It turns most of your creatures into Vindicate. The other creatures, you just get the best lords. I haven't looked or seen any builds around that but that offers some pretty good synergy with the commander.

Sorry for the double post, but you can lock out the game with a changeling that champions a creature, such as Changeling Titan, Karmic Guide, a sac outlet, and Reaper King. When I did a quick glance, I think there were three champion changelings, and Karmic Guide can be replaced with Angel of Glory's Rise. That's multiple ways to achieve a board lock win condition. Depending on the sac outlet you, you may not even need Reaper King. Goblin Bombardment let's you get infinite mana. With access to all the colors you can easily tutor out all those pieces (at least I feel like you could).

@SaberTech Finding an adequate Reaper King list on the internet is difficult considering most people build janky tribal/changeling decks with him, but an optimized list is basically 5-color goodstuff with a couple support cards for the King himself (aforementioned Conspiracy and Xenograft plus a couple of the playable scarecrows). The differences between King and Child of Alara or Sliver Queen are basically negligible, but he's much better than Cromat, Progenitus, and Karona. Tier two seems like a safe place for him.

Also, kicking a Rite of Replication with Reaper King is hilarious.

So from a competative angle, it sounds like a Reaper King deck would work well if it was build around the Boonweaver Giant combo like Karador, Ghost Chieftain decks tend to run. The various elements of the combo (Karmic Guide, Reveillark, etc.) would synergize reasonably well with some of the other cards mentioned above, so you would have backup options if the combo doesn't come together quickly. Then you could leverage the 5-colour good stuff aspect to optimize your control and tutor options.

@Yavimaya_Eldred Dammit, you beat me to it. I very nearly managed to do just that in a more casual game, but the guy actually playing the Reaper King in question suddenly had to depart. It was a shame. I could've nuked twenty permanents.

As for the readjustments that Narej suggested:

Mikaeus, the Unhallowed--agreed. Frankly, every dedicated combo deck in the format suffered a hefty blow from the death of the partial paris.

Sidisi, Brood Tyrant--agreed. As I've already explained, she's not preferred BUG commander, but that's immaterial, if we're being strictly objective.

Teferi, Temporal Archmage--agreed. As much as his combo with The Chain Veil makes my head hurt (it would require at least three permanents that tap for six mana altogether, at least two of it being blue, correct?), there's no denying that it's an instant win, and one that's rather easily assembled early on, even in mono-blue (Tezzeret the Seeker , Fabricate, Transmute Artifact, and even Personal Tutor and/or Mystical Tutor to go and get some of these). Furthermore, even without this combo, he's still a stax powerhouse, which is certainly not to be treated as an afterthought.

Feldon of the Third Path--agreed. Admittedly, I have but little personal experience with him (apart from playing against a clearly suboptimal tribal Myr variety of him at my LGS), but repeatedly 'reanimating' Wurmcoil Engine, for example, is definitely nothing to sneeze at.

Yisan, the Wanderer Bard--New York abstains, I'm afraid. I'm not sold on the apparent effectiveness of his toolbox nature, but I've also never even so much as glanced at a competitively-sold list of him, either.

Titania, Protector of Argoth--agreed. While I wouldn't exactly say that her interaction with Terastodon is weak by any stretch of the imagination, she doesn't quite the fit the bill of a tier two commander, as, even though she plays well with stax elements, her color identity most certainly doesn't.

Zurgo Helmsmasher--agreed. Not much to be said here, I feel--he's another tier three voltron commander, albeit one with an unusual color identity and an awesome interaction with Worldslayer.

I would like to take the time to voice opposition to demoting Titania. Following NarejED's estimation of her, I've been been playtesting this deck: Titania, Protector of Argoth, and it's been consistently goldfishing wins on turn 6 (with lethal aggro against multiple opponents), and this was made before the inclusion of the Command Beacon + Food Chain trick. I feel that this is enough to warrant continued inclusion in tier 2, or at least further testing.

I feel as if Circu, Dimir Lobotomist should be moved up a tier. He is basically a thing of card denial, and if you build around him, he has the potential to be a tier 5 commander.

ok, just a question. Is it possible to reorder them in such a way that tier one is the top left, tier two is next to it, tier three below tier one tier four next to tier four, and so on? this is just confusing trying to find the tiers and a specific card within them.

Not really, the site automatically orders them based on how many cards are in each category.

And Circu is usually going to be a 2/3 for 4 that exile-mills a few cards and does nothing else. The only way he could be good is if everyone in your playgroup were playing the same deck, and EDH players typically dislike that situation without you building a deck to punish them for it.

He's a good example of a non-vanilla commander that's still bad enough to be in tier 6.

Any more opinions about my proposed changes? I'm going to try to finalize the next round of list revisions this Friday.

Could just add an appropriate amount of a card like Zealous Conscripts or something that will be at the bottom of each list.

That would probably be confusing and hard to manage.

That, and if only one card was used, it would just show up in a stack, rather than listed out one by one.

I don't understand the need for this request at all.

I was just trying to say a way that it could be done if it was a deal to others. How it is laid out is fine for me.

It would be nice, but it's more work than it's worth. I'm a big fan of using CTRL - F for finding things on page like this, but that's just me.