Azrael_Kai the only thing "oblivious" here is the fact that you dont have any of the staples for cedh except sol ring, your curve is over 4 so itll never survive at a competitive table, and youre running tribal dragons, which will never work in cedh. Where is your win con?

Athraithe but my deck is fun not like yours that are all the same __

Not mine but seems good as an example decklist for Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons, also you spelt her name wrong in the spoiler. I feel this post follows your rules because I don't run her, and I don't disagree with your assessed power level.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/competitive-hapatra-vizier-of-poisons/

Not mine but seems good as an example decklist for Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons, also you spelt her name wrong in the spoiler. I feel this post follows your rules because I don't run her, and I don't disagree with your assessed power level.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/competitive-hapatra-vizier-of-poisons/

That said you can delete it after you make the changes (or decide not to make them).

Here are my amateur thoughts on the Ixalan commanders, which are currently unranked on this list.

Gishath and Tishana seem to be the strongest out of the gate. Too high-costed for competitive play, but they can clean house at casual tables. Gishath can instantly create a ridiculous board state if he lands, and Tishana can give massive card advantage to an existing board state. I'd say Tier 3 for each.

Vona is viable at casual tables, and has annoying, repeatable spot removal, but doesn't really contribute to a win condition on her own. Tier 4, I think.

Kopala and Lannery are excellent support pieces, but being monocolored locks them out of much of their tribe, and limits their use as actual commanders. Tier 5, maaaaaaybe Kopala could be Tier 4 if someone works hard enough on it.

Mavren Fein is spectacularly useless as a commander because there just aren't very many mono-white vampires. Even after Rivals, I don't think there will be much reason to run a vampire deck without black. Tier 5 easily, though he is still a good support piece to Edgar Markov.

Beckett Brass is the hardest to judge here. Currently, there just aren't enough good pirates to really make her viable. I've tried my hand at Beckett and it just... doesn't work very well. You need to run a lot of pirates for it to work, but most of the current roster of pirate cards just don't make enough of an impact in EDH, even counting the pirates printed way back in Mercadian Masques. Shapeshifters help, but the support just isn't there. Beckett's spot on the list absolutely depends on what happens in Rivals of Ixalan. IMO she's currently a borderline Tier 4/5, but after Rivals I can easily see it becoming Tier 3, possibly even 2.5 if Rivals gives us some particularly insane pirate support. Worst case scenario would still probably leave her at upper-Tier 4.

Skullbriar, the Walking Grave is Tier 4. I'm not positive but I think there could be some potential there. He has Haste, he is 2 CMC, and Counters stay on him through zones.

He does have to battle Bounce effects, but Library effects are almost a non issue now that you can't shuffle Commanders. I haven't seen an Oblation in a long time.

I think with ways to boost Counters, like Proliferate, or just adding direct Counters he could do some work. Evasion should be possible, with the likes of Zombie Master and Filth comboed with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.

I'm not sure, just saw it on the list as Tier 4 and was wondering if we could make it better than that.

Azrael_Kai it doesnt matter if a deck is "fun", the deck you posted is suboptimal and subpar, my casual-esque mimeoplasm deck could take yours out by turn 4, and thats without the staples like FoW and mana crypt/vault. Any of the tier 1-2 decks would have it shut down before it got started. This page is for the best of the ebst competitive decks, not casual fun decks

Azrael_Kai: the thing to remember is that "fun" is an entirely subjective thing. Just because a deck is competitive does not make it immediately unfun. Some people really enjoy the consistency and find the slow clunky decks to be extremely boring.

I will try to find time to review your athreos list!

so we can finally start ranking the ixalan commanders, ill throw tishana into the 2.5 running nomination (prime speaker zegana).

kaminari no koe

Commander / EDH* chaosumbreon87

SCORE: 2 | 4 COMMENTS | 311 VIEWS | IN 2 FOLDERS

I've been trying to tune this deck for a while, but I want your opinion on this:

No Control, No Thought, No Will

Commander / EDH BMHKain

133 VIEWS

Sen Triplets is currently at Tier 3, but I saw it more as a Stax Lockdown deck to begin with. I'm guessing this would bump it up a Tier in some way if approved? I'll find the cEDH staples later if you guys are willing to mention a few. Also, I want some constructive comments please; how many lands should I cut? And are there any real ways to win? This focuses on Exiling is opposed to grave manipulation, as well as some crazy stuff. I think the ol' triplets need a comeback, but what are your thoughts thus far within color identity?

Also, thank you. I too am glad Commandcast is trying to get into cEDH to a degree... _

Although another post might be of note...

Just so I don't just show this deck for show, this decks runs both Orbs, Enchantments that can potentially lockdown a strategy with at least 2 card combos, and other impressive things. Though I wonder if I should Replace Eon Hub with Stasis...

Ive said things similar to this in the past, but I feel its worth noting that to be competitive you simply HAVE TO start with a core that is made up of staples and then go from there. Each good deck has maybe 20-30 cards to make it unique (powerful 1-2 color generals are an exception), but the rest are non negotiable.

If you aren't starting every esper deck with mana crypt, sol ring, mox diamond, vamp tutor, imp seal, enlightened tutor, mystical tutor, demonic tutor, brainstorm, ponder, mystic remora, etc then your deck is going to be terrible for competitive purposes.

The whole under 3 cc thing is completely outdated. Anything above avg cc of 2 is highly questionable outside reanimator and some stax variants and even those should be damn close to 2 even with razaketh and jin in the 99. If your curve does not have tons of 0-1 mana spells, fewer 2 mana spells, fewer 3 mana spells and only absolutely essential cards 4cc and above your deck will not be good for competitive purposes.

If your lands come into play tapped, then your deck is bad. If you run any rocks or counterspells above 2cc (again 1-2 color generals may have a token exception) your deck will not be competitive.

There was perhaps a time where some of these rules were negotiable to a degree, but that day has long passed. In a post partner/hulk/scepter/raz world, The best decks are too damn fast and consistent to get cute with pet cards. Even a deck of staples can be bad if the deck lacks synergy and all the cards don't fit a general theme that can meaningfully interact early with fast decks or race fast decks.

Lilbrudder is right of course. Even my non Competitive decks start with the basic Artifact package. Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, Mox Opal, Talismans if possible, Signets that fit, Lotus Petal.

Tutors always, based on your colors, Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Mystical Tutor, Enlightened Tutor, etc. Then you get into the more expensive tutors like Grim Tutor and Imperial Seal. Price is irrelevant when posting deck lists here, so they should be in your deck.

Stax pieces as well, you typically want to slow your opponents down as much as possible. Even light pieces like Blind Obedience can make a difference. More common stuff is Mystic Remora, Stasis, Winter Orb, Torpor Orb, pretty much anything you can run that won't slow you down to risk the game.

Even your land base builds itself. Run 3/3/9, I usually go with Check lands after that, you want Ancient Tomb and other stuff that comes in every deck. You only want about 1/3 of your deck to be lands, you won't be finding 40 land decks around here.

TL:DR You want Speed (your ramp, artifacts), Consistency (tutors), Slow your opponents down (stax).

Building new decks is actually really easy, because there are so many auto include cards based on colors and strategies, you only need to pick like 20-30 cards. Whatever works best for your Commander, but typically those will be Copy/Paste Win Cons anyway.

@ Lilbrudder I agree with what you're saying, and I know that the move to optimization inevitably leads to a constriction of viable options, but I have to admit that I find it a little painful to watch as the top end of a competitive meta shrinks as the optimal inclusions are decided upon. I love watching decks get refined, but it's a bit bitter-sweet when you hit that point were there are few other card options worth testing. Knowing that there is a comparatively small pool of cards that you are going to see over and over again in the format is a little disheartening, especially when the initial surge of innovation that comes with viable new card inclusions gives the player base such a fun creative fervor.

With eternal formats like this one, I sometimes contemplate what it would be like if a selection of commonly used cards were banned for a limited time - lets say for six months to a year - and then they are unbanned as a new selection of cards are temporarily rotated out. I can see a number of issues that might arise with that sort of system, but there's some appeal in the idea of being able to shake up the format more often without making people's card purchases a complete wasted investment like a permanent ban would.

SaberTech: I too feel some grief over the shrinking of the viable card pool/generals, but mine is tempered by the freedom partners have provided in regards to how one chooses to play. Strategies such as midrange, control, reanimator, and various hybrid strategies are much more viable than they once were. So on the whole I find the changes to be a +. Moreover, with PlayEDH becoming a thing, the budget restrictions for playing cEDH has evaporated completely as proxies are allowed and you can play people halfway across the world in your basement.

I will never advocate to ban cards, in fact I wish cards like Tinker, Gifts Ungiven, and Yawgmoth's Bargain were legal. Broken ass cards is what makes the format fun imo. If you despise running staples, there is a range of deck power levels that aren't cEDH that offer a person a taste of the big dance. I agree that you dont just start with cEDH, the learning curve is far too high even if you netdeck which is why popular decks often get mixed reviews as inexperienced pilots play badly.

Fortunately, PlayEDH has various power levels it accomodates and there are ways to cater your deck power to the situation while still following cEDH principles. For instance, if I am playing with friends back home I play comboless value sharuum beatdown strategy. I still run a tight curve and good cards alongside my Withengar shenanighans. I am also in the process of assembling the cards for a high power inalla wizard deck. Is mecurial chemister cEDH worthy? Hell no, but that wont stop it from stomping asses in any environment other than cEDH. There is no shame in playing mid power or high power decks. You can play more generals and play jankier ("fun") strategies. The key to this format, is and always will be, playgroup selection. You don't need an imp seal to play high quality edh and a well construxted edh deck is totally fine with or without the staples.

Lilbrudder I was wondering why so many people play with cameras and video chat instead of just using a free program for online play that already has the rules implemented? I don't want to clog the comments with that topic, but you could write me a message if you know what's the reason for the popularity of a...complicated...procedure for playing with people across the world. Why not go on xmage for example? When I want to meet with people (know and unknown) online for a game I usually do it there

Winterblast: I don't think this will clutter things up much so I will just answer here. The reason to play via webcam is fairly straightfoward. Computer programs are more impersonal and its much more enjoyable to play paper magic. I am simply speaking for myself but The process of setting up a game is not significantly more complicated than trice and I dont have to worry about the dreadful user interface and/or people who dont want to get into voice. I spent roughly $50 for my webcam rig and the cards/proxies needed for 5 cEDH decks (phone camera+son's toycrane). I am not tech savvy or talented as an engineer and it was easy to do.

Well, then it's probably just my preference that if I play not in person I like to do it with a program and text chat, so I can go get a coffee or whatever without disturbing the flow of the game or listen to music when playing...

@ Lilbrudder Oh, I'm not complaining about the power level of cEDH. I have a couple cEDH decks of my own and enjoy playing. It's just that when I feel like I no longer have a reason to tinker with a deck I get bored of it. It's the same with my LGS meta; if I see the same decks, cards, and combos over and over again I get bored. I enjoy playing cEDH the most during those times when people are trying to figure out how newly introduced commanders and possible new combos fit into the meta.

I called an emergency meeting of my college's collectible card game committee. We are extremely unhappy with this announcement, especially since they will likely not ban Spike (making their banlist utterly meaningless). Additionally, Un-cards are unfair to the members in our playgroup that have physical disabilities, as there are now cards where manual dexterity is relevant. Players on our campus already had poor opinions of the RC; now there is almost no credibility whatsoever.

Also, Reddit is a shitstorm.

Also, we should add 1996 World Champion, Jalum Grifter, and Grimlock to TierInsanity.

Finally people are coming to my side.

I've had this debate time and time again. The short version, we don't need to RC to make decisions on Casual play. Casual play is just that, Casual. When playing Casual we can make our own rules, and play with whatever cards we want, including but not limited too, "Un" cards. I am personally a big fan of Richard Garfield, Ph.D..

The RC needs to focus solely on Competitive play because that is the only area that needs a Ban List. The RC allowing Silver Bordered cards in Competitive play just shows their incompetence.

We have never needed, and won't ever need a Ban List or RC for Casual play. If I'm playing Casual, I will play whatever I want as long as the people I'm playing with agree. Like my Genju of the Realm (as the Commander) deck, if everybody is cool with it, I play it and we all enjoy a game.

People playing Casual make their own rules, and the people interested would have built and played Un decks regardless of what the RC said. Allowing such a thing in sanctioned tournament play is incompetence.

If you dont love the unset stuff just refuse to play with it. I dont get the big deal tbh. We dont need anyone who actually cares about cEDH trying to "balance" this format. Sheldon leaves most our broken shit untouched and the multiplayer nature of the game usually regulates decks that get off to a hot start.

While I'd like to have an even smaller banlist and someone managing the format who actually thinks about competitive play, I don't see the problem with the silver bordered cards. I will just put a Jack-in-the-Mox in one of my decks, maybe a Prismatic Wardrobe and Frankie Peanuts in another, but as it's only for a month, many people won't even bother with building a full blown silver bordered deck. The cards are either just bad, or they would work well somehow but a bit weirder than usual...they won't create a completely new meta in one month of being legal