@justavictim82:

Multani, Maro-Sorcerer needs a deck right? I got the perfect deck for you. thegigibeast click this link --> the most underrated commander

Quick throwback to the Kaalia question - While I know most Kaalia decks are stax builds that use Armageddonesque effects to hate on opponents' mana bases, how well would a much more combo heavy Kalia deck work? I have thrown together a list found here:

Kaalia Combo

Commander / EDH* enpc

2 VIEWS

which tries to blend a bunc hof combos together. You have the Doomsday/Hellcarver Demon combo with Kiki-Jiki/Celebrant as well as combos like Resto Angel/Kiki and Karmic Guide + Kiki + Goblin Bombardment. The deck has much less reliance on Kaalia but still uses her to deploy key combo pieces.

Keen to get people's thoughts.

What's the rationale for splitting out the non-competitive tiers (3-5) when the focus of this list is exclusively cEDH? It generates a lot of unnecessary arguing.

justavictim82 suggested that Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer is not an utterly useless commander like Tobias Andrion. They suggested that in their experience it was competitive in a more casual, battle-cruiser meta and thus should be moved up to tier 4 or possibly tier 3 where those decks exist. Why shove "good decks don't turn creatures sideways" down someone's throat when that's not what's being discussed at all?

If the purpose of this list is to analyze the viability of commanders in cEDH, then we should have one consolidated non-competitive tier to discourage fruitless debates about commanders like Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer.

On the other hand, if the purpose of this list is to place every commander in a hierarchy, then we should be willing to look at lower tier commanders through a different lens.

@Mmelton: You can take a tier 3 grim-grin, corpse born or tier 3 Nekusar, the Mindrazer and put up a fight in the higher tiers (not tier 1, but there is a chance of winning against tier 1.5 decks).

A Tier 4 deck cannot beat a tier 2.5+ deck: Queen Marchesa (tier 2.5) vs Angus Mackenzie (tier 4) vs Baru, Fist of Krosa (tier 4) vs [insert another tier 4 deck here], the queen machesa deck should win.

Tier 5 cannot beat any non tier 4 tier 4.5 deck. Gwafa will not be winning in a pod that has azusa, doran, and kaalia (which are all considered here as tier 3). Kazuul, Cliff Tyrant won't win in a game facing daxos meletis, daxos the returned, and ezuri (all of which are tier 3).

If you want to create a seperate list solely for casual games, then do so.

miracleHat you're reinforcing the idea that there should be a cutoff around tier 2.5-3 where all the remaining decks are in a single "non-competitive tier".

1) top tier competitive

2) competitive

3) under-tested / new brews / boarderline

4) non-competitive

You can swap Sol'kanar the Swamp King for Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge in the tier 1 Grixis storm list and stomp through a tier 2.5 pod but that doesn't mean Sol'kanar the Swamp King is worth discussing or moving out of the garbage.

The reason for the different Tiers is because there is a significant difference between Tier 3 and Tier 5.

Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer is Tier 5, justifiably. You will be hard pressed to find a worse Commander in his colors.

He offers nothing to any deck. His ability is irrelevant most of the time. His ability is even worse due to the fact that it gives your opponent an advantage. There is not a good reason to run him.

As I mentioned before, he is so bad that I couldn't slot him into my Phelddagrif Group Hug deck. He literally has nothing to offer any deck.

Obviously you can run many decks with a different Commander in the same colors, but we rate the Commanders based on their own worth to the deck. Jeleva is Tier 1 not because she is great herself, but because she is the best Commander for that deck.

Melton: A tier 5 deck cannot beat a high tier deck. A tier 3 deck can. Zurgo Bellstriker aggro will not win in a full competitive pod. Ezuri, Renegade Leader elfball can come up with a win in a full competitive pod (though at that point just use selvala). Why would you put ezuri + zurgo in the same category?

@archwizard

Hey man, my playgroup currently is getting more and more spikey commander wise by the day. Our decks are very often almost exactly the same as ones we see here, and we made a group understanding that if one wants to proxy timetwister they have to actually get it eventually. I myself used to proxy bazaar of baghdad and the azami player just bought a tabernacle.

The group is very cool to play in and on paper it feels proper Elitist. My deck that I was boasting about I'm now a little worried about, haha. But I'm playtesting it more this coming week. So I'll be able to give good input into it soon.

Unfortunately it's strongest point is that it just pounds the current meta. If the meta were to change from running strictly less than 30 lands, where 4+ don't tap for mana the deck would have severe disadvantage.

@archwizard

Hey man, my playgroup currently is getting more and more spikey commander wise by the day. Our decks are very often almost exactly the same as ones we see here, and we made a group understanding that if one wants to proxy timetwister they have to actually get it eventually. I myself used to proxy bazaar of baghdad and the azami player just bought a tabernacle.

The group is very cool to play in and on paper it feels proper Elitist. My deck that I was boasting about I'm now a little worried about, haha. But I'm playtesting it more this coming week. So I'll be able to give good input into it soon.

Unfortunately it's strongest point is that it just pounds the current meta. If the meta were to change from running strictly less than 30 lands, where 4+ don't tap for mana the deck would have severe disadvantage.

I want to challenge the Doomsday + Labratory Maniac build preference for tier 1 Zur the Enchanter. The combo is very prevalent in the tier 1 meta and player awareness gives it a significant liability factor. Also with only 4 enchantments, the current tier 1 suffers from having an unreliable backup plan and little adaptability, which other Zur builds excel at.

I want to recommend another users deck Zur's Perfection by outofnothing0 who runs a budgetless, more general and harder to disrupt strategy designed for 1v1 games. I borrowed a lot of ideas from this deck which eventually replaced the lab/doomsday combo in my own version of the deck for 4 player games Principality of Zur (Tier 1 Voltron/Control).

Jewishman In the Ad Naus/Doomsday build featured here Zur IS the backup plan. The deck doesn't usually look to cast Zur, but rather go for a quick kill by around turn 3. The decks you linked in your comment aren't nearly as tuned for a competitive environment due to the fact that they rely on swinging with Zur. This is exactly why the list featured here only has 4 enchantments.

I dont play Zur (except in the 98), but I believe the general consensus is that shimmer myr zur is the best version of him at the moment.

So, I've been working up the guts to post here. I see Titania is out of date. I want to offer my imperfect list as a place to start an updated version acknowledging it probably has a way to go. I however, have reached the ceiling of my abilities as a deckbuilder. I also recognize she's Tier 3 and so not a massive priority but I want to be better so....Getting more eyes of experienced deck builders on her I think can only be good in the long run.

Erza Scarlet Protector of Fiore: Titania *PRIMER*

Havenwood Battleground and Hickory woodlot were in old versions of the deck. And stax is definitely where I'd love to go. TBH I'm scared of cutting more basics but I'm open to advice about what to cut.

Gotcha. I'll start there then.

Might be a bit off topic but is there anyone who follows this around central CT who could recommend a shop with a strong edh following? Also is cockatrice a good place to meet random strangers for an online game? Never used it but I'm curious. Thanks

Cockatrice is very good for any format although it takes some getting used to. I would try to link up with some people over at the /r/CompetitiveEDH or /r/EDH subreddits

Jonlt528 I can only recommend xmage because it has the rules of all cards implemented. I remember the times of magic workstation and playing online without rule enforcement is definitely a pain in the ass.

n0bunga I like this list a lot:

Scarab God Combo

I've been cooking up a deck list for Eight-and-a-Half-Tails and want to submit it for criticism/getting the slot for the tails deck list (as one is still needed)

A Pillow of Winds: Eight-and-a-Half-Tails Primer

irisfibers lets knock this out right now. No mana vault, mana crypt, tons of worthless creatures taking up space, and you win through damage and not a combo or lockdown or even "i win" effect. For "competitive" edh, its utter trash

@Athraithe Thanks for the comment however, nothing about this build is claiming to be "competitive" (I say as much in the primer)...

Tier 3. This is the middle tier. They can't usually compete against tier 1 decks, but might do fine with tier 2 decks. They usually have "the Aggro Problem," or they are wildly inconsistent. Most of the "pubstomp" decks that dominate casual meta go in here. They may have a bad reputation, but that doesn't make them tier 1.

This deck is surprisingly effective (I've been toying with it for a bit now). In higher tier casual (or middle tier if you want to phrase it that way) this build does pretty well. Multiplayer politics are prominent enough (and games last long enough), that it stays pretty steady. It has enough removal to deal with a lot of combos and simply shuts down any deck that is damage based. Stax will obviously crush it but you don't see much stax on tier 3. Obviously it's not going to stop a deck that can combo out on turn 2 or turn 4 for that matter but again, that's not tier 3 play...

Having said that minus mana crypt (which is way out of my price range)/mana vault if you felt the need to make actual suggestions feel free to post them on the decks page, I'd love to hear suggestions to make it more effective :)

irisfibers: Just because a commander has been listed as tier 3 (or even below that), that shouldn't be used as an argument for building it suboptimal just because other decks are weaker.

The lists here should reflect the absolute pinnacle build of each commander, regardless of their tier. If your deck relies on politics to win, then you're already behind the eight-ball.

And just because you may not be playing against tier one decks doesn't mean you have a free ride. This listing ranks Saffi Eriksdotter as tier 2.5. maybe use my deck as a measuring stick to give yourself an idea of the kinds of things you could be up against.

The other thing is that list list reflects budgetless decks. Just because you don't own a card is no reason to hold the list back. Build a budgetless version of the deck for review.

irisfibers: Ignoring the semi-aggressive comments above for a moment; just gonna give you a friendly reminder that if you want to provide a deck for the examples list, it definitely needs to be budgetless. This is a list for commanders' potential under the assumption that they're in a vacuum with no budget limitations. Meta and budget aren't relevant here. Ideally, decks on the list should be made just for this, as personal lists are likely to be restricted by personal budgets and local meta.

Not sure why I decided to pop in just to say this xD. I might actually contribute decklists eventually.