n0bunga, No offense to Gigi, but I have a hard time wanting to promote anything that tries to use Serra Sphinx.

I did a few playtests. The deck can go off, but it's also really limited in the first few turns by the high number of 4 and 5 mana sphinxes. It's also really luck based from the limited tutor power. (The time I went off I had Paradox in my opener.)

griffstick, CyborgAeon: One card does not a meta make. There are plenty of black stax decks in the upper tiers. There's also plenty of decks packing answers for those decks in the top tiers. Nearly every color has access to similar effect anyway (Blood Moon, Back to Basics, Choke, Winter Orb.) No card is powerful enough that we're going to demote commanders left and right because of it.

Hissp, Yeah, I think I'm probably going to put that one up. It's too polished not to have.

apavel, Started a Xiahou brew for you: Xiahou Brew. Not finished, but Him + Paradox Engine + Reanimation Spell seems like a neat way to get infinite mana. Plus you can dump your finisher in the yard. It's probably still going to be T3 though.

Razulghul, Partner commanders are weird because we're not ranking them off of every possible combination here. Can you post over on List of Partner Pairs by Tier with a short description of how your deck plays?

M8yena, That's an interesting deck, but I think it might be too many hoops to jump though for Tolsimir to move up. For comparison, I can make an elfball version of Glissa Sunseeker that blows up all artifacts as it goes off, and it would be about as good as other elfball decks, but that's not enough of an edge to promote her either. It also doesn't help that your main combo is a default 12 mana to play.

Hint: You can do 1x cardname #tier_1 to add spaces into the category titles

sonnet666 They took the Hapatra list down from the Conglomerate, so either she's not solved or just isn't that competitive. Either way she's 3rd on my list of cEDH commanders to play so I probably won't be doing much with her in the near future.

I have a spicy Godo Combo deck that consistently goes off on Turn 2-4. He should be moved up to tier 2.

Godo Combo

Commander / EDH* Hissp

252 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER

Hissp im sorry but how can this deck be considered tier 2? your commander is 6 mana, mono red, and relies on combat damage to win. The deck itself may not, but your commander does. Godo is tier 4 for a reason, and deserves nothing higher based on his abilities

After a lot of tweaking, I feel that Xira Arien is ready to be bumped up to Tier 2.5. Given the relative strength of the deck to decks like Teysa, Roon, Riku, etc, I feel that the deck has enough power to be bumped up. I currently have a 7-11 record with my list (closer to 5-9 on the most recent iterations of it) in competitive pods, which puts it slightly above the average 25% winrate that is expected with equally skilled pilots and equally powered decks. The list can be found here.

In the commonly questioned Commander's section it says Kaalia was moved back to T2.5, but I still see her in T3? I have a Kaalia deck so I am biased, but when/why was she moved back down?

Athraithe did you look at the list? Perhaps tier 2 was a reach but he should be at least tier 3.

What about saskia the unyielding

Hissp yes i looked at the list. And i stand by my previous statement as you have no way of reliably dealing with any gy hate, mass artifact hate like stony silence, and a simple Nevermore shuts your deck down completely.

You could say the exact same thing about Sidisi, Undead Vizier.

Hissp no, sidisi has more outs, only need to etb, and doesnt rely on any sort of combat. its not even comparable, plus it can tutor for any removal pieces it needs, whereas red pretty muc only has gamble

To be clear, I'm referring to the tier 1.5 Sidisi, Undead Vizier list posted here. Of course mono-black has more tutors that are more reliable, but its removal suite is 2 pieces of non-black creature destruction, which do nothing against graveyard hate, Stony Silence, or Nevermore. I'm running Chaos Warp and two pieces of artifact destruction. I'm not contending Godo, Bandit Warlord is in the same tier as Sidisi; I brought it up as an example of a fast deck that finds plenty of success with limited answers.

There are almost zero cEDH cards that affect single-creature combat.

sonnet666 provided useful feedback and suggested that the Hammer of Nazahn combo -- new since Godo's original, rightful placement in tier 4 -- merits a bump up to tier 3.

Athraithe, the kind of mindless, belligerent naysaying embodied in your responses is the exact thing so many of us following this list are tired of. It stifles creativity and IT NEEDS TO STOP.

Hisp is 100% correct. cEDH has no instant speed spot removal whatsoever, which makes assembling 18 mana between turns 2 and 4 immensely consistent in this mono red deck. I've been goldfishing this deck all day, and I have been able to swing with Godo and produce 18 mana on T2 over 60% of the time.

How has no one seen this before?

Moreover, Sidisi is horrible because it has black tutors that can tutor literally anything (far less useful than equipments) and only has a couple pieces of interaction, which is why black is one of the worst colors in edh: it can only kill creatures, which is useless since no one in cEDH has spot removal anyway.

Hissp:

"Athraithe, the kind of mindless, belligerent naysaying embodied in your responses is the exact thing so many of us following this list are tired of. It stifles creativity and IT NEEDS TO STOP." How is what i said stifling creativity? all i said was mono red is nowhere near the same powerlevel as mono black. And as buildingadeck put it (with sarcasm) he agrees with what i was saying. Nobunga is right, your list is quite refined, but i still dont believe a deck that RELIES on combat and combat damage (zur doesnt rely on either, neither does jeleva since she just needs to stay in attack phase to win) deserves to rise from tier 4. apparently theres a few people that agree with me on here

Athraithe The point is that I've seen many people post to this list saying, "Hey here's a new spin on a commander/deck you all may not have seen, let's discuss!" Some people haven't done their homework, omitting basic cEDH staples like dual lands and Mana Crypt. Some of us have done our homework and are presenting the best possible list for a given commander.

Many of the Voltron staples like Uril, the Miststalker are sitting in tier 3 where they belong. Uril, the Miststalker literally never wins a game on turn 3. If you want to make the argument that there's too much spot removal in cEDH and without hexproof the deck can't compete no matter how fast it is, then that's a thoughtful discussion we could have.

I don't understand what your fixation with combat damage is because you haven't explained it. Doesn't Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder rely on combat damage? Similar to Yidris the primary goal of my Godo deck is to hit 1 person once and win that very same turn.

Almost every month you get someone new posting a deck idea to this list only for people to flame them because their deck would never match up against top tier decks. I never claimed anything close to what buildingadeck implied in his sarcastic response, and I don't see how that kind of toxicity is helping anyone.

Many times people like me are excited about the idea we've stumbled upon and overestimate its potential. I've conceded that my original tier 2 assertion was a reach, especially given that I've only played the deck a handful of times so far.

I've already advocated for consolidating all the lower tiers -- including much of tier 3 -- to non-competitive. Until that happens we're going to be arguing about whether my deck is more competitive than Aurelia, the Warleader, not whether it's more competitive than Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge or Sidisi, Undead Vizier.

"I have a spicy Godo Combo deck that consistently goes off on Turn 2-4. He should be moved up to tier 2."

"There are almost zero cEDH cards that affect single-creature combat."

My statement was, yes, satirical, but it was by no means a significant stretch from what you said. You might call that toxic, but to me, misinformation is far more toxic. Sidisi has weaknesses, which is why it sees less play today than it did previously. Godo, on the other hand, has less Tutor density, and, from the looks of it, is a one-trick-pony. That will work one time. Sidisi is good because it actually consistently wins T2-4 in a variety of different ways.

Also, the cEDH reddit didn't update the conglomerate: Dan from the LabManiacs updated the conglomerate alongside the other LabMen. Essentially, the update was designed to include less decks that, while playable, aren't necessarily the best decks in the format. It is intending to not mislead people about what to play. However, that comes from the bias of the LabMen from their local playgroup and PlayEDH, so it comes with a grain of salt. (Not saying anything against the LabMen; any list curated by a small group of people is going to have inherent bias.)

i did not see a saskia deck on the list.

The first sentence should have read "...consistently goes off on Turn 3-4 in a vacuum." I already discussed the tier placement comment. Perhaps the second sentence should have read "There are almost zero cEDH cards that affect single-creature combat specifically." It was meant to highlight that people aren't playing Moat or Ensnaring Bridge in cEDH. I concede it was poorly worded.

My Sidisi comment was specially meant to reference a much more successful deck that also gets hosed by Stony Silence. Saying something like, "Godo is too weak to spot removal, you're very unlikely to survive an entire turn cycle" would be fair and constructive criticism.

I'm going to say it again before it doesn't seem to be registering. Every month people post decks here and claim those decks to be stronger than they really are. There's discussion and expectations are quickly adjusted. Then people flame them with the kind of toxic elitism dripping from buildingadeck's satirical comment. Toxic, elitist stigma is one of the things the cEDH community is struggling with most. Someone just made a massive post on reddit about it last week. It's indefensible.

I agree that elitism is an issue in cEDH, but promoting an untuned idea as cEDH is also unwelcome. I tuned Dralnu for a month before submitting it to Dan for the conglomerate, and I have played over 20 games with actual people with Xira this week alone in trying to improve the deck. Goldfish speed is only 1 factor to a deck.

I am also on the cEDH Reddit and discord, and you'll see that generally, I'm an advocate of brewing. I am not, however, and advocate of misrepresentation of a deck or its strengths. If you can provide data on how the deck performs in a 4-man pod with other competitive lists, then we can talk about bumping it a Tier. However, with no real evidence of its merits in actual games, I don't think anyone here is going to believe the deck is capable of what you claim it is.

Cm3: Yep, that's why there's a "DECKLIST NEEDED" marked against her. Feel free to submit one, otherwise please be patient and one will appear in time.

Thanks for your candor buildingadeck. It's a very good point that while I've spent a lot of time brewing this particular deck I haven't yet played it in a cEDH setting. Hopefully I'll find opportunity for that later in the year. Sorry for jumping the gun.

Athraithe, buildingadeck, You guys need to stop being rude. We're talking about moving a commander out of T4. It doesn't need to be on par with AN Sidisi. I think it was very clear that Hissp brought up Sidisi as an example of a low-interaction commander that wins by out-racing disruption. He did not seem to suggest that Godo = Sidisi.

This deck plays very similarly to other T3 decks that mitigate their color identity's weakness with otherwise sub-par cards. You think Sram, Senior Edificer can play around dedicated hate? Not a chance. If someone lands a Sphere of Resistance you better hope you have one of your two removal pieces in hand. That's why Sram's in T3.

Hissp's deck was also not a work in progress. If you read into the discussion on his deck page you'd see that he has sound reasoning for most of his card choices and had taking the deck as far as possible. This decklist was perfectly acceptable to post here.

Not really. You'll see he has sound reasoning for the combo. Also, Sram has actually won competitive pods, and it absolutely dominates almost every deck in Tier 3. If he's never played the deck against humans, it's a WIP.

Sure, sure. Sram is probably better. But let me ask you this, is there a single other commander in T4 that can tutor for a game winning combo before turn 5?

I'm gonna move Godo to T3 on my next update.