thegigibeast How is maralen tier 3? If it sticks for an untap, you literally win on the spot with adnauseum.

Because at a competitive table when everyone tutors instead of drawing, you won't live another turn to untap with her.

thegigibeast you know you want to move my glissa deck to tier 2.5 come on just do it :)

When will the Dominaria legends be added in?

Yes and battle bound?

No Idea if this is the right place for it: I am interested in stepping up my edh-game from casual to semi-competitive, if you check my decks: I've built a Relentless Rats Muldrotha deck and still am hopelessly in love with mono red. Grenzo, Dungeon Warden is probably the deck I spent most time into building and improving. Could you guys maybe point me towards a commander to start improving on - I am hoping to learn a bit more about decisionmaking with a bit more interaction with other players to push me out of my comfort zone. I do enjoy building a deck that is tied together by the commander itself, rather than simply being a color enabler.

Maybe you guys could help me out and just throw in what comes to your mind first. What was your first competitive commander? Appreciating the work you're doing!

baral, new jhoira, and really most decks that play doomsday would be good to try improving decisionmaking

baral- you have a 'limited' amount of counterspells. this will teach where the holes or weakpoints of strategy are

new jhoira- a more proactive style that allows for stax. shimmer myr allows you to flash in some nasty responses. its easier to find an opponents mistakes so if you note the cause you can reflect on that. was it tapping mana wrong, was it being too hasty in doing X/Y/Z?

doomsday- finding safe piles are a pain. Welcome to decisionmaking with a chess game woven throughout.

thats all I can think of off the top of my head

I don't play competitively, but I have been working on an artifact deck for a while in izzet colors. When the new Jhoira dropped I instantly put her as my commander. It's obviously not always consistent but I've never won a game turn 3 before (again because I'm not a competitive player) until recently. Basically turn 2 Pili-Pala, turn 3 grand architect... infinite mana with artifacts in my hand, jhoira fueled me into memnarch and then everyone's permanents are mine. I'm sure it's not unheard of, by any means, but in a format where infinite mana is as easy as two cards, the card draw each cast is definitely great value. She's been my favorite deck lately.

meiisjapan because maralen will search up each of your opponents something (either a wincon or removal for maralen) before you.

If you want to play a tutor for ad naus in the command zone play Sidisi, Undead Vizier she is an all around better commander and doesn't make your opponents win.

When will there be a update to the tier list?

Anyone know of any infinite combos to abuse a Regna, the Redeemer and Krav, the Unredeemed deck?

My Dragonlord Ojutai deck is pretty much the most competitive one on the market you should link it to my page.

im confused why Inalla is not tier 2 (or higher). is the list based on just the commander or the deck that is built around them? plz let me know.

you are right it isnt tier one i was just wondering why it wasnt in the tier 2 spot. i feel inalla can out play a few of the teir 2 commanders.

Two things I think are out of place. The first is Hakim, Loreweaver. The second is Vorosh, the Hunter.

Full disclosure, I don't have a Vorosh deck, but I've been theory crafting and looking into it. Hakim is one of my main decks. Please factor this accordingly.

In the case of Vorosh, I think people underestimate that color combination substantially. It has access to cards like Vanishing or Diplomatic Immunity allowing it to dodge and preserve counters, as well as counterspells and tutors. Black and blue have a ton of ways to make creatures unblockable, as well as ways to deal with threats. I would by no means call a Vorosh deck fast. But with ramp and a good set of answers I wouldn't call it tier 5 either. After it lands an attack once, it can drop any player within 2 turns via unblockable commander. And again, it's color combo lends itself well to biding its time and riding out threats. Not to mention a late Beacon of Tomorrows or Time Stretch is a guaranteed kill if cast at the right time.

Hakim is definitely one I personally use so pls no bully. But the ability to recur enchantments without having to expose yourself by attacking means you can make a resilient one man control platform. All the pieces it needs to come online and become a threat are recurrable. Enchants due to his ability, and equipment due to being able to be fetched from the graveyard by blue. Charisma, Psionic Gift, Neko-Te, Vanishing, Grafted Exoskeleton, Pemmin's Aura, Quietus Spike, Drake Umbra and other totems, Freed from the Real, Eldrazi Conscription, Illusionist's Bracers, Hermetic Study, Diplomatic Immunity, Sword of Kaldra, Corrupted Conscience, Blight Sickle, Sigil of Sleep, Oracle's Insight. The overlapping cards fulfilling the same role combined with the fact you can comfortably dump to graveyard(by overdrawing or other effects) means you can quickly dig for what you need. It's somewhat mana greedy but once it spools up its very hard to deal with. You've gotta get past counterspells, phasing out to dodge, recurring umbras, and hexproof. Usually multiple of those are online by like turn 7 or 8. And once it is online you can start trading mana 1 for 1 to get devastating effects. 1 blue mana can get you: destroy or exile target creature, put a poison counter on target player, "permanently" tap target creature, gain control of target creature, half target player's life, draw a card, etc. And if bumped up with helm of the gods or enchant stacking buffs all of this can be done while going full aggro on someone to proc annihilator or punch their face for damage. Finally, he can use recurring mass sacrifice effects to wear down enemies. Smokestack presents a somewhat mana inefficient option lategame to limit enemy's board state. For example, if you have a pemmin's aura, psionic gift, Diplomatic immunity combo online, you can run a smokestack at 3 charges indefinitely. Sacrifice the 3 Enchants during your upkeep, then pay 6 blue to rebuild them leaving the rest open for counterspells. Enemies are losing 3 permanents a turn while you keep enough mana open to counterspell or ping as needed. If brought online lategame after a board wipe your enemies will be completely unable to rebuild while you can continue building up your combo pieces.

In the case of both of these decks, they lend themselves to a decently strong voltron option. But they also both have access to some of the best ways to keep a creature alive through board wipes and preserve their bonuses they've been accruing.

With Vorosh, in theory a bit of biding your time combined with an Unblockable enchant(of which blue has tons) can build up to a time walk effect wherein you kill a player before they can even react. With Hakim, he turns into a controltron that is highly resistant to most answers against voltron decks, while also being able to rebuild extremely fast unless someone can punch through those multiple lines of defense AND wipe the graveyard out quickly.

Keep in mind, I HAVE NOT USED VOROSH, but I do play decks that operate in a similar manner. In theory Vorosh has a great deal of potential as a lategame sweeper with low time to kill aided by time walk effects.

I DO HAVE A HAKIM DECK AND AM THEREFORE BIASED. But hakim is(after some costly spool up) an absurdly efficient controltron commander. He can singlehandedly kill multiple players in a single turn via poison counters and Illusionist's bracers. Or permanently detain an entire board. And the fact all of these are instant speed means he can save his effects til end of turn on his enemy's turn leaving mana open to counterspell threats he can't deal with.

Ugh. I should've mentioned above. I don't think either of them should be higher than tier 4. They're still fundamentally casual decks far too slow for cEDH, but despite that they still have some potential to get rolling in a more casual environment. That sounds like tier 4 to me.

Post your Hakim, Loreweaver list!

I don't have it posted online. TBH I'm still tweaking and improving it, but those cards I listed are all the cards with direct interactions. I'm weighing whether it's worth it to include some Transmute cards to boost reliability of certain cards, but so far I've not had issues going off in my casual play group. I'll double check my deck later tonight and see if I missed any other synergistic cards. But tbh, the number of artifacts and blue enchantments that trigger off that sort of thing are extremely low. I went through gatherer and that list is probably all of them.

The only other thing worth considering is wizard tap effects but the risk with that is that you can't recover nearly as easily after a board wipe. In general it's strength is that once it hits a certain threshold of about 6U+ it can start having a high impact while being really hard to get rid of. So about the only other thing worth considering is any mana stone which generates blue. I'd advise skipping the 1 mana stones since they're a lot easier to get rid of and Resilience is the goal. But ymmv.

I just realized I wasn't doing my 'job' :P

- T5, though there may be an argument for T4 using changlings and cheap dragons to cheat out huge tokens.

- T3-4, good colors + Chaos Warps for everyone.

- T2.5-3, efficient creature with amazing late game and I could only think of this since when I first read it.

- I can see this in Blood Pod or some other value midrange/stax deck

- I want to like this card, but I don't think it will see play at 3 mana.

the fact that its any land might make it have some uses. maybe in an amulet style deck, otherwise im going to hold of before tiering things myself

I'de like to apply my Derevi as I have playtested the current iteration of the deck that is on this "tier list" multiple times in a competitive pod and feel far more useless when I'm on the "wizard deck" compared to my own version. I am pretty convinced with my sideboard and primer for certain meta you could get far better results than this version on here, no offense but you outright lose to anything with a late game deck like this.

Perhaps add it as a second option if that is possible next to the wizards version or something which could bring some interesting new views to her ...

京 An illusion? What are you hiding? (Tier1-STAX) 京

There are no sideboards in EDH

I dont think thats quite true. A sideboard can be used if all players agree to it beforehand if i remember right.

There is an unofficial 10 card sideboard for casual EDH. It is not part of the rules.

Hm, interesting, i guess i was informed incorrectly