I think they try to focus on decks that at least use the commander somewhat, not just for the colors. Otherwise a tier list is a hopeless task.

So it seems the discrepancy to me is, does this list include the commander as it is intended to be used in a synergistic build-around deck... Or is that same commander only built for color identity, which in some cases may be considerably different power level.

What if the main tier list were to include commanders based on their synergies in the best way possible (meaning some 3-4-5c commanders would be lower than if they were built simply for color). And then the list also included placeholders for "generic" color identities. In other words, the best possible build ignoring any commander abilities, and literally only using them for color identity, would be grouped separately. So for example, each bant commander will have a separate listing for their build-around decks. And then "generic bant colors" would have a placeholder (maybe bant charm) on the tier list for the strength of colors alone, ignoring the commander.

Might be a terrible solution, just throwing it out there to see if others might be able to run with the idea.

I'm back. I'll see where this will go from here...

I've been trying to find a Boros Commander that can Synergize with a Stax/Hatebear deck. Right now, I'm running Archangel Avacyn  ^Flip, but it seems to be more of a placeholder than something I can use. If anyone can help with this, I'll see if I can bring Boros to a new level of competitive nature, and by that, I mean Tier 2.5 or whatever. For now, I need help searching for a new commander...

There are several ways to approach this and we havent decided what’s best. One option is that instead of just having the commander on the list, we list the deck shell. For example instead of Kess in Tier 1 you could have “Grixis Storm”, then in the description we would have example lists and notes about what commander is best. For decks that are NOT commander-centric, you could have an asterisk or note indicating that you could run this shell with any other commander in the colors, but it will be strictly worse i.e. Korona with a Grixis Storm 99 is going to be worse than Kess. Other decks/shells are commander centric and no other commanders could run the shell very effectively - see Gitrog Monster and General Tazri. Its tricky to figure out how to capture this info in a list format and have it be meaningful at a glance, which would be the goal. We are brainstorming currently.

All right. I guess I'll look up my options on gatherer for now. Good luck to all on the heated debate. :)

Kess is a powerful grixis twin list, Jeleva is grixis storm.

I honestly would argue against Karona, the False God being a worse commander for a twin list than Kess, Dissident Mage. Having access to better removal like Swords to Plowshares, Nature's Claim, etc. and Grand Abolisher, Abrupt Decay, Silence, Autumn's Veil, Life // Death and other such cards I think would be a useful addition.

To be honest, I think they would simply be different, neither worse, nor better.

*Karona, False God, not "the" False God. Whoops

Kess is used for both twin and storm. Jeleva mostly storm. I think 99% of people who play cedh would disagree than Karona is going to be better than Kess for a storm. Having a useful 8th card in the opener that is castable is very important. Also, 3-color enables a high-tide mana base that also facilitates Gush lines... this would be extremely difficult in 5 color. There are also no-good-choice Intuition lines that rely on Kess flahbacks.

No, I don't think it will be better. I said that.

Also, I never said storm. I only mean twin.

My mistake... but my point still stands - most Kess Twin lists have a supporting combo line involving Labman + Tainted Pact/Consultation and Kess is really important to that line since you can Consult for labman, cast it, then Kess flashback Consultstion to exile the rest of the library and win on draw step or with a cantrip. It makes an effectively 1 card combo (plus commander). This line + normal kess value things would make a Grixis version significantly better than a generic 5c imo.

I have found that those lines are a tad risky, yet very playable. My only issue with it is normally the deck is just fine without those lines. I believe Intuition lines are the biggest downside to not playing Kess. I have also found when testing kess, though to be honest I haven't had a ton of games with my kess recently, that she normally wasn't needed unless I wnated to combo out with Intuition, I generally didn't cast her unless I had nothing else to do, which left me feeling that she doesn't matter a ton to the core of the deck. I mean the deck was great before she was released, and though the general consensus is that she is the best (In fact mine included), I don't believe she should be considered a "Tier 1" list, if we are only judging a deck by how much the commander synergizes with the deck.

I point was not that she isn't the best in any way, only that if I switched her out, that the deck would stand very well, and that means she doesn't synergize a ton. On the other hand The Gitrog Monster requires it's commander, it doesn't really stand at all without him. Does that mean The Gitrog Monster is better than Kess, Dissident Mage? No, of course it doesn't, and this list has him tiered lower than Kess, which proves gtoast99's theory wrong.

gtoast99 thought that this list was a bunch of decks "based" around the commander. The Gitrog Monster is, but Kess, Dissident Mage was not built solely to gain value from her ability. The only reason this theory was brought up was to combat my statement about how Karona, False God and other commanders with just good colors should be tier 2, and not tier 5.

Nothing was meant to say Kess, Dissident Mage was not the best commander for the decks like Grixis Storm or Grixis Twin. I apologize if that was what you got from it.

Kess still probably does the most for the list, even if "the most" isn't a whole lot.

We agree there! Well, Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge might argue otherwise, but generally I think Kess, Dissident Mage is better.

this has to be the most famous cardlist on this site

Well, not nessecarily, I have found a lot of people to use the card lists to find the right cards, like List of EDH Tutor Cards and friends.

enpc:
Basically i just realized i stopped playing FFA but i was still looking AT the FFA tier list while also forgetting that this list was multiplayer centric in the first place, which makes me feel better about teegs tier 3 rating, he just gets run off the board to often to go higher.

I tried to order the categories and make it fairly straight-forward but yes, it is a lot of categories, and as such i just went and condensed it down to 7 categories. I've put the FFA card category in the sideboard and dispersed the previous sideboard into the primary categories, to also simplify the fact that I've been playing only 1v1.
This has been a long time coming and the numerous categories were temporary simply for my benefit as a work in progress, simplifying it was simply a matter of requesting it be simplified. =p
That said i have almost no further interest in developing FFA teeg builds, adjusting this builds FFA proficiency, or making a separate decklist.

As for cards missing, Gaea's Cradle, Mox Amber, and Cryptolith Rite for pseudo-dorks were previously in the sideboard so they'll now be found on the primary list.

For the rest its too long to write and mostly stems from switching to 1v1 anyway. (you can get away with sooooo much)

For the reasons above i rescind my request to have my mid-range creature aggro teeg deck added to your lists, as well as my recommendation to upping teeg's tier rating.

Anybody notice that Ramos decklist had Najeeba as the commander?

It was updated and the list hasn't changed for a while.

I disagree with putting Gitrog and Tazri in the same category; there should be at least 3 distinctions.

1) Shell decks that can ignore the commander e.g. Grixis storm

2) Shell decks that cannot ignore the commander e.g. General Tazri. I know General Tazri is the only 5 color Food Chain Commander, but I would argue the strategy is centered around FC, not on Tazri, which flies a bit in the face of a "Tier list by Commander"

3) Decks that are unique to their Commander e.g. Gitrog, CVT, Yisan, Edric, Captain Sissay, Tasigur, etc.

There may be even more nuance in Tasigur simply being the best Sultai control commander, I think a few more layers of nuance are better than just 2.

Sidisi, Brood Tyrant makes a great Food Chain commander, I wouldn't call Tasigur, the Golden Fang the best at all.

I no longer play Baral and do not want to be the Baral list linked in the description. Please use asm's list instead.

Can someone submit best list for Rofellos? I know he's banned, just want to compare with Selvala which i think is better option because of draw. Thanks

I'm wondering where Najeela and the other Battlebond generals are. I want to know about the M19 Elder Dragons too? How much play-testing is done before you can tier a general?