The Esper plainswalker can generate infinite ETB's paired with Felidar Guardian

@I_TappedWrong - We will hold off on the Esper walker as it was leaked, not spoiled.

- T3? This is some decent reanimation, even if only as tokens. I like it in a Stax build with Smokestack, Deranged Hermit, Possessed Portal, Stitcher's Supplier, etc.

@thegigibeast - You're right. I misevaluated the card. While I saw the infinite mana outlet, I focused too much on the "any player" part.

made a very rough draft of a gyrus, waker of corpses deck any help making this deck a 70/30 deck would be great.

Gyrus, waker of corpses

Commander / EDH* I_TappedWrong

5 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER

merrowMania another Master of Cruelties abuser as far as gyrus, waker of corpses

I_TappedWrong You have nothing to manipulate the top card of your library.

I_TappedWrong My apologies I thought this was a vaevictus deck. Looks fine to me

Hi

I was wondering if anyone maybe had a competitive storm build list with Kess, Dissident Mage?

I would very much like it to be a build like with modern where you get your storm count high enough to cast something like Tendrils of Agony and win.

I have a somewhat competitive list already, but I dont know if something is missing, to push it further. It is still fairly budget so i cant really include OG duals :)

Usually decks use Aetherflux Reservoir

My list is here if anyone wants to see it.

Stormy Grixis Engine

@ Flindsey2249 Still looks super biased and not thought through at all... backed up with some wins vs some so-called "Cedh" decks in your most likely casual playgroup (speculations of the unknown factor)... I mean just stop, what does it matter where it is put on an opinion list... with just your opinion of "I recognize how good the card is even if it is my own commander" you help no one as your opinion doesn't really add up to what is needed... where are your notes, your goldfish data, your tournament/fmn results, your primer, your strategy or any relevant data that is not kitchen table friendship duels...

I really just want to bash it in your head that it doesn't matter if it is 2.5 here... it has no meaning other than that it is probably a good commander with potential and isn't that good enough?

@ SynergyBuild you seem very lost in that idea of yours... you got some points on staples that many decks can run but generally CEDH still tries to push the "no redundancies in your deck" idea and that also applies to the commander and meta...

I disagree with your entire mindset of 99 good stuff cards and stick any commander at its helm and it works equal to any other commander in that same color pie, so in theory this would mean I can run any 5 color commander and play all of the strategies and combos on the same level as the commander they were intended for and built around. I think you haven't seen CEDH long enough or don't really play it... ( i call absolute BS and madness!!!)

@ Winterblast it is fine where it is at now...

@ Odysseus_97 i know of two lists that might be worth looking at :)

Grixis Flux

Grixis Consultation

Hope they help you apart from the really expensive stuff they run :)

No, trust me, I understand that building the way I spoke isn't the most competitive, I apologize if that is what you got, there are strictly better ways to build, but when people say a commander can't comeptete at all is my problem. I think every commander can compete. Whether or not they are the best version of that deck I won't comment on, but a deck that can compete against Tier 2.5 decks, and also wins ~25% (it's share) of games with tier 2.5 decks should be tier 2.5, right? ]

Obviously if the deck could do the same against Tier 1 decks, and performs it's share of games against them, then it would be tier 1, or am I mistaken there. If a Grixis storm list helmed by Karona, the False God, yet running some Green and White staples like Angel's Grace for Ad Nauseam, etc. can compete against Tier 1.5 lists for it's share of games, then it would mean it is a Tier 1.5 deck, right? Yes, it could be upgraded with Kess/Jeleva helming it, and be Tier 1, but does that not still mean every 5 color commander is tier 1.5 at least?

My argument stems from the idea that a commander should not be based on the deck that best abuses it, but the best deck it can helm, and if the commander sucks on its own right, why is it considered that any deck with it as it's commander is innately bad?

Not every commander can compete that is just wrong and proven in 1v1 statistics on mtgotop8 even though it might not be Multiplayer it shows enough of a statement that some commanders can't be found over all the years, because they are just not good enough at the helm... Even with the same cards available they remain redundant compared to others...

and where are you getting this fictional data from? I'd like to very much see every single statistic from you against every deck and all of the different outcomes and results in CEDH with your weird mindset of 99 good stuff and any commander at its helm vs tuned CEDH decks so not your friends...

I wouldn't say it is considered bad, I'd rather consider it casual with a weird twist :)

Kiyomei I see how I have mislead you. I have just recently finished my deck and decided to comment on this post to see if I could get some feedback on The Locust God as a commander, and that is not what I have recieved. Instead I get a bunch of bs about how I am supposed to be helping others when I really just want to know everyone's opinion on a card. I'd also like to learn a lesson from what seems to be a CEDH pro about your personal decks/commanders.

you start with "this commander should be higher for x biased reasons" GET lost with that bs in the first place...

what is an opinion going to matter without a deck behind it in the first place and what are you going to do with a personal opinion anyway? decide its tier because someone said its good to go?...

just link your deck and ask for feedback I guess or leave it be and don't worry about the fictional tiers?

Kiyomei I have decided that you're probably right and I don't need your opinion.n0bunga You seem to know and appreciate the creativity of this format and I was wondering if you could help me with a deck choice. I prefer to build in the colors of my lands happen to have several shock lands. My lands are especially strong in b/g. Any suggestions on a golgari commander? Or should I spread it into three colors?

n0bunga I do like The Gitrog Monster, however my experiences with the card lead me to believe that you have to have a fat wallet in order to build this fellow. Sidisi does seem like a solid general... would you mind walking me through some combos/what might be in the deck? Thanks!

Kiyomei I don't think it fits where it is right now because it links to the wrong commander first of all. thegigibeast or someone else should be aware of that so it can be changed... And as for the tier, I don't think it fits along with the commanders that don't have a distinctive strategy or are somehow weak at what they do or are neutral placeholders for the colors because that's not the case anymore compared to Ramos. Having a commander that actively helps the build when cast in combination with threatening consistent t2-4 wins should warrant moving out of tier 2

Flindsey2249 : Yeah just wanted to remind you this was not to right way to come over as an informed person looking for help ;)

"Flindsey2249 : The Locust God is waaaaay too low of a tier. I have been working on a locust god deck and it still may be rough around the edges but I can consistently challenge my friend's cEDH decks and half the time even win. I say atleast tier 2 or 1.5"

But Best of luck with your deck and be sure to link it sometime when it si ready if you really want help ;)

@Winterblast Sucks that it still ain't updated yet... but just telling people it consistently wins turn 2 - 4 isn't going to help anyone and sounds about right where it is at now.

Perhaps you should look for some data and results with your deck posted somewhere to help justify a move for your deck without being biased?

Kiyomei you know well enough that all data on cEDH is just individually collected, so I could give my statistics and you'd still believe me or not

Kiyomei, If you want decklists, below are WECIC (Why Every Commander is Competitive) lists:

My best Zirilan of the Claw list:

Mono-Red Stax (WECIC)

Commander / EDH SynergyBuild

SCORE: 1 | 41 VIEWS

My best Hope of Ghirapur list:

Colorless Stax (WECIC)

Commander / EDH SynergyBuild

1 VIEW

My best Commander Greven il-Vec list:

Mono-Black Stax (WECIC)

Commander / EDH SynergyBuild

15 VIEWS

My best Shanna, Sisay's Legacy list:

Selesnya Stax (WECIC)

Standard* SynergyBuild

4 VIEWS

My best Jerrard of the Closed Fist list:

Gruul Stax (WECIC)

Commander / EDH SynergyBuild

1 VIEW

My best Skullbriar, the Walking Grave list:

Golgari Combo (WECIC)

Commander / EDH SynergyBuild

0 VIEWS

My best Unesh, Criosphinx Sovereign list:

Mono-Blue Combo (WECIC)

Commander / EDH SynergyBuild

0 VIEWS

My best Tishana, Voice of Thunder list:

Simic Combo (WECIC)

Commander / EDH SynergyBuild

8 VIEWS

My best Sol'kanar the Swamp King list:

Grixis Combo (WECIC)

Commander / EDH SynergyBuild

0 VIEWS

My best Ragnar list:

Bant Control (WECIC)

Commander / EDH* SynergyBuild

3 VIEWS

My best Halfdane list:

Esper Control (WECIC)

Commander / EDH* SynergyBuild

SCORE: 1 | 11 VIEWS

My best Llawan, Cephalid Empress list:

Mono-Blue Control (WECIC)

Commander / EDH SynergyBuild

0 VIEWS

SynergyBuild

I do not agree with you that all the commanders are competitive. All the commanders can lead a competitive shell, but there are better commanders than what you listed to accomplish those goals.

For example, mono-red stax with Zirilan can be OPTIMIZED, but a competitive mono-red stax deck would be better running Daretti as the commander, it gives faster lock options, and Zarilan won't really contribute to your gameplan by itself, other than sometimes giving you one or two dragons, but again, if you are stuck with those dragons in hand, they are terrible. And topdecking a dragon also is terrible. See? To get the best possible mono-red stax deck, you woud need a commander that can contribute even more to the gameplan. Daretti would make the deck better because he would contribute more.

Same thing can be said for your mono-blue control with Llawan… It can be optimized, but will not achieve the true potential a mono-blue control list with Baral at the helm could give, because Baral would contribute a lot more to your gameplan.

I would say that not all commanders are competitive. All commanders can lead a competitive shell, but some commanders contribute a lot less to the gameplan, so they are not as competitive as others.

thegigibeast Wait, so your argument for them not being competitive is that they aren't the most competitive? So does that mean every Tier 1.5 deck isn't competitive? if I take any cEDH list, and switch a card in it for something slightly less powerful, does that mean the deck isn't competitive?

Yes, the commander is more important, it is the 8th card in every hand, but since so many decks do not heavily rely on the commander, it means we can switch that 8th card and still do well.

Lets take a more controversial switch, Kess, Dissident Mage or Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge, which is the better Grixis Storm list? Well, it isn't for me to say, but the grixis storm list you list is a great one helmed by Jeleva. Would a deck helmed by Kess be worse? maybe, it depends who you ask.

Is that Kess deck not competitive though? I would say yes, even though I would argue for Jeleva, both are still competitive. That is the same thing with my lists.

More mediocre commanders:

- T3-4. Goes infinite with The Chain Veil and land Auras, but the payoff is one ult or another planeswalker.

- T4. Draws cards, but very narrowly.

- T3-4. Unless someone pulls off a sweet Retraction Helix/Opalescence/Intruder Alarm deck, I am disappointed that this is the first 3-color Merfolk.

- T3-4. I don't know the value of a land that enters tapped, but it DOES add two mana, so some deck is probably good with it. Otherwise, just beat down with a 12/12

Wait, just realized Tuvasa only works for the FIRST enchantment each turn...I am disappointed overall now...