i like the idea of a cedh group approaching edhrec. I also like the copy paste idea. Maybe the issue at hand is reliable users that will maintain the list. Not saying ops are unreliable, but theres no denying that this list has been abandoned. Theyre inactive so maybe they quit magic lmao

I often use edhrec as a resource when deckbuilding to find common cards well suited for my commander. I was aware that the site could also sort commanders based on categories like colors, archetypes, and tribes. For sheer accessibility and discussion I want to make a community driven page here on tappedout dedicated as a resource for players who want to explore new generals in the format. I believe categorizing commanders by color would be the most linear and structured way, because organizing them by archetype might get a little hectic and gross looking. I will likely draft up a similar and updated list to this one, with much less focus on the competitive aspects in the format and comprehensively organize the generals based on color if anyone would be at all interested in following it because I just simply want to have a plain discussion for EDH related things instead of this tier system. Alternatively, for the cEDH players here I would be more than happy to start up an updated page based on this tier system if they prefer it, although I personally would not be able to keep up with it all by myself and adequately place the generals accordingly based on community suggestions simply because I am incredibly busy at college nowadays and I would also like to consult other people, preferably those working on the page with me before we come to an agreement on tier placements. I am not a fan of the tier system, although if it serves as a useful resource to competitive players I don't see any reason to let it die out.

Let me know what you guys think, and if anyone is interested in working on a team for these things feel free to comment on my wall or enable chat to discuss some ways to go about doing a project like this. The upstart wouldn't be difficult to do, except the maintenance may become problematic. However, with a healthy group of active players and a community driven backbone for support, I think we could handle this. Thanks all!

DangoDaikazoku that is a great idea. My schedule is too all over the place and not very consistent so i personally cant commit to help maintaining a list, but id definitely follow and recommend others to check it out. As far as a specific list for cedh, i think itd be easier to maintain than this current list. It would feel a lot more cleaned up and "to the point." Idk. My thoughts.

Mr9Loganja DangoDaikazoku I think a list sorted by archetype and commanders ranked within each archetype would be easier to maintain imo. It would also make sense to determine which archetypes are even competitively viable and which commanders could be used for which strategy. In this list for example you have 4 storm decks in Tier 1, 1 Food chain, 1 hulk and 1 stax/combo...but there are for example possible storm commanders in lower Tiers as well, also other hulk commanders as well as food chain and stax decks. Some commanders could be used for various strategies, which are sometimes even equally strong and viable, so it would make sense to list all viable strategies then. For example Kess could be a lab man consultation build, reanimator or storm with or without doomsday...thrasios/tymna could be hulk or a scepter deck, even a midrange ad nauseam deck...the "one example per commander" principle of this list here is very limiting as a source and also subjective.

A split between casual and competitive edh in a Tier list is ridiculous though. if you want to rank commanders and example builds it has to be done based on the most optimized builds and this will always mean it's a list for competitive decks.

I think someone should do a new tier cedh list with a bunch of people who can actually keep up with it. Find notable people in the community.

Winterblast I believe you misunderstood my suggestion and I apologize if it was unclear. I am by no means suggesting to make a split between casual and competitive in a tier list. I want to make two lists, one for EDH and one for cEDH. The casual EDH list would simply be organized by colors for players to use as a resource and discuss anything EDH related. I don't want to necessarily gear the casual list toward new players, but it would definitely be friendly toward them and it would be incredibly easy to sort the commanders. For the cEDH list, I agree that if I organized the generals by archetype would be easier to maintain, but I said if people prefer the tier rankings, I would continue to maintain it. My only issue with sorting by archetype and strategy is that I alone would not be able to go through each and every commander and analyze every archetype possible for the general, and I honestly think the outcome would look extremely cluttered and not really serve a purpose in ranking the commanders' viability in the first place. I think the tier list works well for what it is and an updated list like this is something that I am aiming for.

Hmm, DangoDaikazoku, well, I don't have the list, but with discussing anything to do with 'discussing anything EDH related' I have at All About EDH, think you'd like to team up with me and make that list, I'd be down!

SynergyBuild excellent! Basically what I had in mind for the casual list when I said discuss anything EDH related was that if somebody had questions in regard to specific commanders or fitting commanders based on an archetype that person is interested in, this would be a community driven page to serve as a resource and help each other out in this sort of discussion and offer help and suggestions to others, and it would also welcome officially spoiled commanders much like this list does and offer discussion about them without any focus on tier placement. The competitive list would be a different story of course.

Would people be opposed to me drafting up these lists and posting them here once I'm finished? If I rank cEDH by tier is there anything major that needs to be changed in terms of tier description criteria and qualifications or commanders on this list that should be higher, or do you guys just want to see a fresh and updated list to start with and just go from there? The casual list is something I know how I want to tackle and go about it, but I'm not sure exactly what the competitive EDH players want to see out of it that's different from this list. Perhaps I'm not the best person to lead the competitive list because it's not a territory I really involve myself in as much as far as tiers go, but I do care about it in the sense that I want to provide an updated resource for other players so I will try my best and maintain it. I just feel like I need some more outside opinions and approval before I go ahead and start on these projects.

DangoDaikazoku as said above I think the Tiers are often subjective and for example the overrepresentation of storm decks in Tier 1 definitely doesn't fit what could be considered the current meta anymore. The lack of data also makes it impossible to objectively rank decks apart from theoretical analysis and subjective experiences and opinions. Therefore I'd suggest listing strategies that are generally viable in competitive play and then providing the "best", "rather good" and "also possible" choices for each strategy.

I would be down for creating such a list but again, sorting the possible commanders into best, good and also possible choices for each archetype might end up being subjective to a certain degree.

Winterblast I agree that the tiers are often subjective, and that's why I have disagreed with the tier system for a very long time. However, this list uses the tier system and has been highly successful, so it must be considerably applicable to competitive EDH. I like the idea of ranking by strategies, it's just that stylistically I can see the the list ending up looking cluttered and awkward and I think it needs to be categorized in such a way to make it easy to follow and understand. The tier list excels in this sense, because it gives you a certain understanding of which commanders tend to do well in the format through a sort of flowchart. Sure this list needs to be brushed up a bit and updated due to certain meta changes, and there will always be subjective aspects no matter how we go about ranking the commanders. I'm not saying that tiers are the best way to rank commanders, but it's certainly a favorable one. I will definitely want to discuss strategies in the description, it's just that I don't see a good and effective way to actually "rank" the commanders by strategy in the list itself and truly evoke the sense of viability that competitive players want to see. Tiers are just good at doing that by placing a number to the name rather than coupling them into a rather broad range of categories that are also subjective. I appreciate your suggestion, and I think it's a good idea, but I just don't know if it would be the most effective application to rank the commanders in competitive.

I can't even fathom going through each and every legal commander and analyzing what archetypes fit them. Take Tetzimoc, Primal Death for example. I don't even have the slightest clue how to play it simply because of its weird interaction in the commander format, since you would need to put it in your hand to get any sort of value from it. Even then I still don't think I could place an archetype or strategy to a card like that, and there are many others that would stump me if I tried to organize by strategy because they just aren't the most ideal in EDH with their interaction in the command zone or simply with the format in general, competitive or not.

I would think that EDHrec's organization would help in endeavor, already breaking things up for you. For commanders like Tetzimoc, Primal Death I would make a miscellaneous archetype for commanders that you can't figure out the interactions for. It is kind of lazy, but it would also help solve the problem with commanders like Scion of the Ur-Dragon and Karona, False God, who don't really have a set placement. Scion can be for dragon tribal, but I think having a miscellaneous combo archetype for 5 color commanders and popular partner commanders, like Tymna the Weaver.

Hey, I was reading the deck archetype and tier descriptions and in none of them was storm ever mentioned. Thought this was weird, because there are 5 storm decks in tiers 1 and 1.5, with 3 of them in tier 1. I have a Ramos list, but since no description for what tier a storm deck would be placed in is given, I've got no idea where it's placed. Basically, I'm just asking if you could include storm in your tier descriptions and deck archetype descriptions. If you want to take a look at the Ramos list, here it is:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/initial-d-ramos/?cb=1538371769

How about Najeela, the Blade-Blossom??

allanrichardo the example build for Ramos is actually Najeela...you can find it in the list above or here: Najeela's Hulk Pod Project (Primer)

Unfortunately the list isn't updated anymore by the people who are able to edit it, at least the last update was pre-battlebond.

WhatevWorks storm is just one viable competitive strategy and it happens to be a very good way of building a deck in cEDH. This is why a lot of the top decks are storm decks and why example builds for lower Tier commanders sometimes happen to be storm rather than a strategy that would "fit" the commander...because a storm build that doesn't use the commander is usually still better than a fitting strategy that is for example just aggro. As for Ramos storm, it would probably be a worse Yidris because the commander doesn't offer Card Advantage but sort of ramp. But as a storm deck, when you can invest 6 mana into playing Ramos, you should be able to just win instead. It would mostly be 5c storm without using the commander and therefore not as good as other possible options in which the commander at least helps the gameplan a little bit.

Please forgive me if I'm being stupid, but I don't understand: Why is Progenitus at tier 3 and Karona, False God at tier 5? The way I see it, the best build of each deck is a combo deck that makes use of the commander's color identity and never plans to actually cast the commander. (Maybe there's some way to actually cast Progenitus with Dream Halls or something, but I'm really not seeing it.) In addition, I'm inclined to believe that merely having the 5-color identity probably means that the deck should be of a higher tier than say Visara the Dreadful, if the metric is 'best deck possible with that commander'. If you disqualify Karona's combo build from getting its tier because Scion of the Ur-Dragon does that job better, then I'd like to point out the sample Kefnet deck. It's a nice high tide deck, and Kefnet is legitimately used as a card draw outlet, but Jace VP just does that job better. Where do you draw the line?

MasN I'd say that's one of the flaws of the list as it is. Imo the similar strategies that don't really use their commander could be summed up and ranked according to how much the chosen commander can possibly help the deck. Then you'd have for example "mono U storm" and possible commanders might be Baral, JVP, Azami, Kefnet...and then you rank them according to who does the job best. I don't know if Progenitus could actually be used more than Karona but I guess them being ranked differently is just a result of the list not being updated and a lack of interest in the lower tiers and "placeholder" commanders. I mean who actually looks up a Progenitus decklist for competitive play? And which casual player would want to build the best possible Progenitus deck, which then doesn't use him at all?

so would Tuvasa the Sunlit be Tier 1 or 1.5?

aznb01777 Tier 3 is what most have pinned it. I'd say maybe tier 3, probably Tier 4 though.

SynergyBuild Serra's Sanctum is playable in this build, you can easily blow up anything with Aura Shards and Enchanted Evening or a permanent Insurrection combo with Aura Thief. Not to mention the enchantment draw engine is pretty consistent while also having ramp from green, and strong blue cards Cyclonic Rift and River's Rebuke, and you can even run Training Grounds, Gaea's Cradle, and Heliod, God of the Sun for even more synergy.

low quality bait

Winterblast Perhaps one way to do it would be to rank each commander according to their strongest deck that doesn't become even stronger if you swap the commander with another and leave the other 99 cards unchanged?

Aside from that, if Progentius/Karona is an inconsistency, how long does it usually take for them to change the list?

aznb01777 yeah, exactly, without it would be tier 5.

SynergyBuild I'm sorry if this sounds dumb or make me seem so but the tier 1 and 3 description doesn't seem to align with your statement. What am I missing from this page description? It seems like it could fall at tier 2.

Tier 1 These decks are the most powerful decks in the format. The combo decks can go off on turns 3-5, the stax decks get a lock on turns 3-4, and hybrid decks get a disruption engine by turn 2-4. They will commonly be seen at competitive tables, and players should know how to combat them. They are resilient, pack protection and backup plans, and take dedicated hate to truly counter. Never underestimate these decks, as they are the strongest in the format.'

Tuvasa can lock down by turn 5.

Tier 3

This is the middle tier. They can't usually compete against tier 1 decks, but might do fine with tier 2 decks. They usually have "the Aggro Problem," or they are wildly inconsistent. Most of the "pubstomp" decks that dominate casual meta go in here. They may have a bad reputation, but that doesn't make them tier 1.

Tuvasa can handle aggro swarm with propaganda/ghostly prison, aura of silence for artifact ramp, and stony silence for aggro voltron builds

aznb01777: If you are advocating for a commander to fall into a particular tier, the best way to do this is with a decklist. Otherwise it's all conjecture. Do you have a decklist (yours or somebody else's) which would demonstrate an optimised Tuvasa the Sunlit build?

how about something like this? http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tuvasa-tier/?cb=1538582207