enpc link above ?

aznb01777 based on the tier descriptions, and what you stated, I would say that Tuvasa certainly isn't quite at that tier 1 range. I think an appropriate placement would be around tier 2.5 at the absolute highest if I had to place a number to it, otherwise tier 3 may be appropriate as well. I mentioned tier 2.5 considering that you brought up how Tuvasa can get a lock by turn five, which is a turn slower than the tier 1 description and thus allows it to fall under the tier 2 category based on that information. If you don't mind sharing the sequencing for how your Tuvasa deck gets the lock it would be much appreciated just to get a good gauge as to how it plays because you didn't add much of an explanation at all to follow along in the description.

I am personally leaning towards coupling it into tier 3, simply because in my experience against Tuvasa, a well timed Bane of Progress wipes Tuvasa's board state and it struggles to come back and recover from that unless you cast Replenish or something. The gameplan always appeared a bit fragile to me when opponents are packing an adequate amount of enchantment hate. Sure, the draw engine support for Tuvasa is rather heavy and allows you to draw a lot of cards, but this digging strategy isn't necessarily a consistent way to grab your combo or lock pieces compared with tutor effects, which Tuvasa appears to only have a minimal amount of which may lead to consistency problems compared to the higher tier decks. Those are my only major concerns, I'm not the biggest competitive player but I felt tier 3 is appropriate based on what you have said and from my own personal experience playing against it. Like I said though, please describe the sequencing to the lock you mentioned more in depth or at least add a more thorough description on the page. That would help out tremendously when it comes to deciding on the consistency and resilience of the lock. I didn't mean to sound like I was tearing apart Tuvasa at all, I really like the commander and I've been thinking about constructing a deck of my own around her for quite some time now. I hope you can understand some of my concerns though.

Actually, yeah, the definition fits that perfectly. Tuvasa is tier 3.

Tier 3

This is the middle tier. They can't usually compete against tier 1 decks, but might do fine with tier 2 decks. They usually have "the Aggro Problem," or they are wildly inconsistent. Most of the "pubstomp" decks that dominate casual meta go in here. They may have a bad reputation, but that doesn't make them tier 1.

Tuvasa can handle aggro swarm with propaganda/ghostly prison, aura of silence for artifact ramp, and stony silence for aggro voltron builds

It is wildly inconsistent, and slow. I play enchantress, and the most powerful combo and stax builds I have achieved over a year of trying has been tier 3 at best. Enchantress and enchantment-based stax is simply to inconsistent, relying on a draw engine, that is subpar in the command zone or not easily able to be put online with bad tutors like Summoner's Pact being needed when you just can't afford the tempo loss. Really, Tuvasa is bad against most tier 2 decks, and is way to slow and durdly for tier 1 to ever be affected by it.

Aura of Silence comes down after the artifact mana. Artifact mana, Sol Ring, Lotus Petal, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, Grim Monolith, Mox Opal, and the other similar effects come down on turns 1 and 2. Without some very incosistent ramp strategy, Aura of Silence doesn't come down until turn 2 or 3, which is averagely missing most of the artifact mana.

The aggro strategy that sees the most play is Edric Turns, a deck that can attack any other player to get the draws, and easily blow up all of your pillow fort over 40 turns before one shotting you.

Stony Silence is a great card, worse than Null Rod, but good in a stax build. It does help the deck be a good stax deck, however with only a handful of real stax cards, it falls short of making Tuvasa viable. Rest in Peace and Blind Obedience are other cards I have found help out with Tuvasa, and Rule of Law, Arcane Laboratory, Eidolon of Rhetoric, and ocasionally Spirit of the Labyrinth does as well. Blue has Mystic Remora, a card that sees extensive play in cEDH stax builds as well as many blue-based decks in the format, and Rhystic Study exists to help lock out some storm decks by drawing you until you can hit some 0 mana counterspells or a Flusterstorm if they are a Tendrils deck and are not going Aetherflux Reservoir.

Back to Basics and Mana Vortex are semi-efficient enchantment replacements for Winter Orb/Smokestack, but aren't too good unless in a dedicated deck, as is Stasis.

Outside of those 11 cards, of which 5 are generally only decent or bad unless in a dedicated deck, enchantment-based decks need red or black for cards like Nether Void, Blood Moon and Stranglehold, however five color enchantments isn't viable due to landbases being too stretched to run Blood Moon or Back to Basics, which leads the whole point to be undermined.

I'll check out your link and see if it has any potential, but I highly doubt it.

DangoDaikazoku perfect play would be for 1v1 t1 Burgeoning with leyline of anticipation t2 you got 3 lands, drop crop rotation for Serra's Sanctum and Hesitation (basically gives you a free turn from your opponent t3 you have 5 lands (one being serra's sanctum) you have enough mana to tutor and play Lunar Force t4 play sun titan for counter lockdown targeting Lunar Force and Hesitation

decklist can look something like this. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tuvasa-tier/?cb=1538582207

thanks for taking the time SynergyBuild I can see your valid points.

aznb01777 I think that concept is interesting, but to be fair it only really works well in 1v1 and even then it can be played around relatively easily. All an opponent needs to do is cast a one drop card to force sac the Lunar Force or Hesitation and then play whatever else they want to play on that turn. Any removal that gets through to Sun Titan kills your combo, and the fact that it requires Titan to attack every turn to keep the enchantments recurring feels pretty fragile to me. I imagine your matchup against other Stax decks and Pillow Fort doesn't make this lock combo easy to assemble, but let's be honest, Stax isn't forgiving when it comes to assembling any win-con. I'm just afraid that another taxing Stax deck like Derevi, Augustin, or Teeg would be piloting the whole match.

After what SynergyBuild said, I totally agree that Tuvasa would fall into tier 3. Just note that tier placement doesn't mean your commander isn't viable. I have plenty of tier 4 and 5 deck builds that still pull wins against higher tier generals, so tier placement doesn't mean your deck can't be successful. Just based on these tier descriptions, Tuvasa happens to fall into tier 3 territory.

DangoDaikazoku I see, after hearing SynergyBuild I can see the reasoning as well. Thank you for all your input. I guess my meta isn't as powerful as you two lol.

DangoDaikazoku is this an overall tier list or multi-player? With in a multi-player set up I would have gone for seedborn muse and generate lots of draw engine going for an Enchanted Evening and Aura Thief or just turn all perms into creature enchantments and blow up all lands besides minds

aznb01777 I wouldn't say my current meta is that powerful lol. Right now I've been seeing at stuff like Zo-Zu the Punisher, Gyrus, Waker of Corpses, Animar, Soul of Elements, Borborygmos Enraged, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, and Kaervek the Merciless. I personally run Toshiro Umezawa because it's the only EDH deck I have constructed on paper, but I had him stored in a Dragon's Maze fatpack box and I just so happen to have two of those same boxes and accidentally mixed them up so I put Toshi in my storage unit and now I'm left with a box full of random singles, so I've resorted to piloting friends' decks until I can either make the time to go out to my storage unit or put together a new deck. So I'd say my meta right now is pretty mixed, but we don't play competitively by any means. Sure we play to win, but there are lots of janky shenanigans all around. However, I have played competitively and I've seen many competitive high tier generals in action in the past, so I kept those experiences in mind when I ranked Tuvasa. I think your Tuvasa deck would do really well in my meta.

To answer your question, I believe this list is a tier list based on multiplayer as it's advertised that way.

DangoDaikazoku man I hate zo-zu deck, I just check out your toshiro annoying to go against unless, I guess your gonna make a kess deck next? btw how how well does he do as a tiny leader?

Month's since the last update here and still nothing. I'm pretty sure this shits dead.

Polar2897 I found it odd that they archived the comments recently. I'm not sure if that's indicative that one of the owners is active or what, but it's rather spooky regardless.

Nah, you can have it set to auto-archive over a set of time I think.

SynergyBuild I didn't even realize that was a feature, but yeah, that'll do it lol.

Oh, yeah, I guess I'd assume one of them would be active too otherwise!

can someone please make a new list that can stay active?

Zenaku17 I'm in the process of drafting up a new list, but I'm undecided when it comes to how I'm going to sort it. Lots of people want to continue using a tier list, while others are opting to sort the list by strategy. No matter what, if we sort them competitively there will be some subjective aspects to it but ultimately I want to get more people on board, and hopefully pick up a few other editors to share the list and maintain it before I even consider publishing the list. For non-competitive players, I'm also making a list of generals sorted by color for a simple and easy to follow resource, but regardless competitive players deserve to have an updated resource like this one available to them.

I have no idea when I'll get this list posted, but as long as I have a strong backing and following to it I could put it up early and make the page community driven, so as long as people are posting and suggesting placements for missing generals on here or even suggesting new placements for existing ones I could have the page up really really soon.

DangoDaikazoku, I would be interested in being an editor and help you out with a tier list.

DangoDaikazoku since you talking about having multiple lists and some non-competitive things you might consider approaching MagicalHacker. He has quite a few lists related to different strategies and more common things like draw.

DangoDaikazoku I would also be interested in helping as much as I can. I'd like a way for people to present new lists for their commander that we can butt heads with to see which one is better.

DangoDaikazoku do you think a tappedout deck is the best way to organise this? The tags to sort cards in a decklist are pretty limited...but one aspect that might make it more interesting is that you can use multiple tags for the cards

It seems more efficient to me to just list color combinations and viable decks for each commander in that identity (see cEDH conglomerate) and just add and remove to that. Dont know how viable that will be for tappedout but id be open to helping with that

chaosumbreon87 I originally suggested doing that too, but others recommended to organize by strategy or tier for cEDH, although I felt that would be challenging and gross to organize. My casual EDH list will sort by color really just to keep things simple because I won't really concern myself with rankings or viability for that list.

Winterblast No, the tappedout deck feature is by no means the best way to organize this list. I'm trying to figure out a structurally sound way to do so, but I keep coming back to the tier organization as the best solution for competitive EDH. I just very much dislike the idea of going through every commander and assigning playstyles to each commander which means commanders can fall under several different playstyles and others might not fit into any sort of archetype at all, and I'm just afraid that this method would begin to make the page look cluttered when the playstyle/strategy/archetype sorting is something that edhrec does and does well since it is more visually appealing and it also allows you to narrow your fields instead of jumping all over on one page to find the category you want to see. I also don't know if this type of sorting would represent the competitiveness of certain commanders and offer the contrast of their inherent strengths over that of others coupled in the same archetype.

To the rest of you guys, thank you for the praise and support. I hope to have this page up for you guys soon enough. I'll accept applicants for editors, but preferably I would like the editors to be upgraded users for the sake of communication to allow private chat, but if not I can still open another decklist and invite the editors to it to serve as a sort of group chat for accessibility. Just enable chat with me and message me, or just feel free to comment on my wall if you're interested in helping on this project. The casual list I have in mind will be public sooner, since it's easy to sort and I can manage it on my own, but the competitive list is going to be a work in progress. However, I can promise to you all that I am working on it, and this resource will be available to you again soon enough. Cheers.

how about a concession and say cedh list by archetype. i feel like that would be more manageable and reasonable than the entire list.

DangoDaikazoku, Winterblast, chaosumbreon87: It sounds like the best way to manage the list is via a google sheet or something. You could have a T/O list which has every commadner listed and a nominal tier listed but then have some sort of better sorting/tracking metrics on the google sheet.