One thing I'd like to point out for the cluster of cEDH players (I think it may currently be the dominant faction?) that think a tier system is not useful: There isn't an especially significant semantic difference between labeling a cluster of commanders, e.g. Captain Sisay to Zur the Enchanter in the above ontology, as "Tier One" v. "Maximum Power". In both cases, they're ordinal variables.

Winterblast, I agree that the labels "Tier 1", "Tier 1.5", etc. are more ambiguous than the current class labels in that the former somewhat implies the ranking variable is of type interval rather than type ordinal. However, in broader MTG culture, for example in modern, there is general understanding that the gap between 'tier one' and 'tier two' decks is not necessarily the same as between 'tier two' and 'tier three'. Again, my primary intent is to demonstrate a portion of the cEDH resistance to tier labels is reasonable, and part of it is fashion.

So just out of curiosity what makes Emmara, Soul of the Accord Mid power? I feel like in a well built deck she can just be a monster with insane token generating abilities especially on a 2 drop. I am not saying its anything close to like prosch for example but with especially with her tokens being life linkers I think she can be a very potent threat that can be considered atleast High Power

Competitive Emmara Here is a deck I planned out just as an example of a deck I think that can really utilize Emmara's strength, this is with my fairly limited card pool knowledge at least for a token strategy, but I think it has high potential

"Even if you can't afford some of the high-end cards that see frequent play in cEDH, proxying those to bring your deck to full power is a very good thing to do."

This is a terrible thing to put out there in the way you did, especially in a list like this that will be read by players from all parts of the community.

Any presentation of proxy use, in my opinion, MUST be done with a clear explanation that it up to the playgroup and that metas that do not allow proxies are not an appropriate place to just start playing them as if they're OK - no matter how awesome your proxies are.

Many groups allow them. Many groups do not. Your inclusion of the sentence at the top betrays your position on the issue and is honestly a big problem. It's not that hard to just describe proxy-use accurately, rather than to pretend they're universally accepted because you clearly wish they were.

You didn't even bother to mention that proxy-use is generally MORE accepted in cEDH than in other groups because many players can't afford the power-levels that are basically mandatory to be able to play at a cEDH level. That level of accuracy and nuance isn't hard to add. Please consider doing so.

SRJ26 the point of this list (as I have understood it so far) is to give an objective framework for judging power Levels in a format that has little tournament data available. While choosing the example builds for the given commanders is still rather subjective imo, it's important to have this frame of reverence available for people who have no idea where their local meta decks are in comparison to an assumed global meta.

That's where proxies become relevant: in playgroups that have established restricted proxy use, decks might have their power level capped by budget and some archetypes might even perform really bad compared to their budgetless versions. I could imagine that a budgeted storm deck would perform worse than a budgeted Gitrog Monster or Blood Pod...and this list here promotes trying the decks as they should be built in order to get a feeling for the actual power. To do that, proxies are a must for many players, especially newer players with smaller card pools and this fact is positively addressed with the sentence "Even if you can't afford some of the high-end cards that see frequent play in cEDH, proxying those to bring your deck to full power is a very good thing to do."

SRJ26 I don't personally proxy (which I know players who couldn't buy cards when they were cheap may not be able to do on a budget), but I realize some do, and so because my decks are worth thousands, I am okay with them proxying cards.

My LGS says you can proxy a card as many times as you want if you own at least one proxy, for the in-store competitive events. This means you can have one Underground Sea you proxy and another you have in another deck, which I think is fair.

I really wouldn't ever say that supporting proxying cards for such an expensive game is a terrible thing or anything, it is perfectly fine, yet some players will, some won't, some have specific rules on how they are able to do it, and talking about proxying isn't bad.

With your last point, I have found cEDH isn't normally in person, so it is online, and proxying doesn't even exist, and in real life, every player I have played cEDH with has actually bought the cards (they normally are older players you got duals and stuff for $5 or $10), so saying cEDH is more lax about proxies has been wrong in my own experience, however that is anecdotal, and maybe I have only met oddities.

Kongou_des your list without proper ramp like Lotus Petal, Mana Crypt, Mox Diamond, etc. just isn't competitive at all. I am sorry to say that, because Emmara Stax is such a fun deck, with Nature's Chosen synergy and the ability to break parity on cards like Winter Orb with cards like it and Earthcraft, and the built-in combo with Squirrel Nest, but with you running fun, but useless cards like Divine Visitation, I can't help but feel you don't understand cEDH and the way many decks aim to win around turn 1-4, and set up their lock pieces by turn 1-3 to shut down their opponents.

I'd estimate that Emmara stax can be placed around High-Power, as it can win, yet often won't to its more well-tuned stax brethren with more access to colors like red or blue stax cards.

Kongou_des here is a WIP list for cEDH Emmara:

cEDH Emmara, Soul of the Accord Stax-Combo

Commander / EDH SynergyBuild

0 VIEWS

I'd estimate it to be High-Powered, what do you think Winterblast, I trust your opinion, and really feel that Emmara might want a tier change. Its quite fun.

(Coming from the person who thinks every deck should be High-Powered, when built and tuned properly, because a 99-card commanderless, colorless stax deck is better than some High-Powered lists, and any commander can helm it!)

SRJ26 I started playing MtG around the Theros block, and after I shifted from Standard play, to Modern play, to now Commander play, I have now been exposed to a massive array of older cards that I missed out on but would love to have. However, I just simply cannot afford as the college student I am.

I do not proxy, but my playgroup is very accepting of them. As long as you have at least one copy of an expensive card and you don't want to risk additional wear by playing it, proxies are good for that. In my playgroup, if you have a proxy, but don't have the actual card within the sub-$20 range nobody is going to say anything about you using them and they're also conversation pieces since they're not made (or rather shouldn't be made) to look like real Magic cards. It opens up another realm of customization in Magic which I very much welcome.

There are certain decks that I would love to build, but due to my financial limitations, I can't spend 5 figures on an Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillow Fort/Stax deck for example, because I'd have to sell my soul to pay for cards like Nether Void, Moat, and heaven forbid the ungodly price on The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. I'm by no means recommending to proxy an entire Commander deck, but man is it a tempting alternative and cost-effective way to play the deck you want to play.

After all, Commander is a casual format. Most people don't care about proxies all that much as long as people are having fun and you're not taking an all-out cEDH proxied deck to a matchup when people have budget decks meant for casual play while your deck can combo off and win on turn 2 or something. I guess it just comes down to knowing your place. If your playgroup is competitive and doesn't demonize the use of proxies, then I don't see the harm in using them.

I think coin flip partners, Zndrsplt, Eye of Wisdom and Okaun, Eye of Chaos are underrated.

• They both enable a 1-card win
• CA in a command zone

Strategy may be not strong (chaining turns), but overall they definitely have the place in High Power by your own definitions at least, maybe even higher.

For the decklist choices, see Coin Flip Tribal

marqueewinq Well... they are 5 mana, and require no removal to inact that 1-card win, so it is just bad Hermit Druid, like... really bad Hermit Druid, mono-green Hermit Druid with no commander is better than them. You can make them a viable stax list though, easily High Powered there, with good artifact ramp, Winter Orb, tax effects, hate, Stranglehold, countermagic, removal, card draw, etc. Just drop the combo and run something more consistent, sure you never cast your commanders in a normal game, but dang is it good, UR stax is sweet!

DangoDaikazoku really like your post, you sound similar to my playgroup! Really, I love your explanation on generally accepted proxying rules, etc. however I have a small problem, you say a line I hear a lot and yet heavily disagree on:

"After all, Commander is a casual format."

It just isn't true, for example, if you meant that players commonly play casual decks and don't play with expensive cards, then standard would be a casual format, so many players just play kitchen-top standard, and don't play the best decks, however standard is considered Wotc's most pushed competitive format.

If you mean it's intention when it was made, by a bunch of bored judges, you'd be wrong as well, as many formats, like Pauper were meant to be budget friendly casual formats, yet is increasingly competitive with a powerful metagame resembling the likes of legacy.

I just hate that people write off EDH as a casual format, and then have EDH players saying the same thing. Apologies if you didn't mean it as such.

Hey, who running this is in charge of the archiving... it just cut off my and DangoDaikazoku's comments to SRJ26 and my comments to DangoDaikazoku and Kongou_des...

It feels bad to be cut off xD!

i think the "competitive" section is a bit too large. there are not 37 different strategies in cEDH distinct enough to earn their own spot. we dont need 4 recursion based GB decks in the competitive section, take the general that supports it the best and post that one in competitive, move the others to high power. unless there is something that makes them distinct enough to deserve their own slot, of course. same with several archetypes in the competitive section. cEDH is supposed to be about no compromises, playing basically the same list with a worse general at the helm should not be "competitive" by your own description

also, if there is no posted list for the deck, that should automatically be enough to disqualify it from the competitive section

I definitely agree on commanders without a decklist being prohibited from the competitive tier

Most of those are obvious candidates that are easily worth it, like Scion with Scion Druid Win totally being competitive, it is just that they haven't found their favorite yet, so I don't think they should be prohibited or anything.

SynergyBuild oh it's no problem at all haha! I knew before I committed to posting my comment that single line seemed questionable. Please allow me to clarify a bit:

By stating that EDH is a casual format, I meant it in the sense that the whole setting of the format is relatively casual. The multiplayer aspect allows people to play politics and generally be more conversational and personable than in any other format that I've played and I love that. I've found that Commander is more of a format that you play together with people rather than one where you play against each other. I say that coming from my personal experience with Standard, Modern, and Commander.

I have played competitively in each of these formats, but I have to say that even in competitive EDH, it seems a lot more casual than other formats simply because it's played in a multiplayer setting, and I think that's important because as a result of playing with them even one time, you get to know each individual pretty well from making bargains with them and even collectively targeting the most threatening player at the table. I feel like I just didn't get that from playing other formats. Sure you can play Standard and Modern in multiplayer settings too, but it's usually limited to 2HG which is simply a team against another team and feels the same as a 1v1 scenario.

In my days playing competitively in Standard and Modern, I can honestly say that I didn't know the names of at least half of the playgroup at my LGS. The rest were people that I already knew outside of the playgroup anyway. I can, however, tell you every name of everyone I've ever played Commander with, competitive or not, and name off the decks they even used. That just goes to say how much more personal the format feels than others, and I think the connections you make through it is where the whole casual sense I mentioned is derived from. Perhaps this is why proxies are generally more accepted in this format than others too.

I hope that all makes sense, I get what you mean though about the casual labels that EDH receives because it can be one of the faster competitive formats, it's just that the social aspects of the format make it feel a lot more casual than others.

Do you play online, I never remember who I am playing against xD I also am bad with names, and don't play politcally in cEDH.

I have found silence in all manners is one of the best ways to play, as a stax-players first and foremost, I am left with the job of stopping my opponents, and even when one looks like they will win, I rarely need worry, either I have an answer, or don't, and know my opponents also do, normally only one answer is necessary to stop a player.

Ezuri, Renegade Leader EDH (COMPETITIVE) My competitive Ezuri, Renegade Leader deck. I would love if people gave it a look and hopefully it could get added to this list!

Is Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire's tier still under consideration or is there another reason he's missing?

I have a lot of thoughts on this new ordering of generals, but for the moment I'll just leave this here:

The Ten Plagues: Locust God EDH | *PRIMER*

Commander / EDH Daedalus19876

SCORE: 564 | 369 COMMENTS | 70873 VIEWS | IN 194 FOLDERS

This is my The Locust God list. I'm not saying it's fully optimized (it doesn't have a Volcanic Island, Timetwister, Candelabra of Tawnos, Mishra's Workshop etc due to budget), but even non-optimized it's strong enough that it wins consistently against optimized versions of the decks listed as Tier 1 here. I've tested it pretty heavily in a meta composed of 90% Tier 0 and Tier 1 lists.

Primary strategy is infinite mana using The Locust God as the sink (through Paradox Engine, Isochron Scepter/Dramatic Reversal, etc), with a backup strategy of token aggro against staxier/slower decks, and enough control to deal with fast combo decks (or protect the combos as needed). Average combo turn is T4-5 with counterspell backup, based on a couple hundred games.

I would like to argue that The Locust God should be moved up to the new Tier 1. If Jodah, Archmage Eternal and Tishana, Voice of Thunder merited that placement, so does The Locust God.

Listening from your conversation with DangoDaikazoku, SynergyBuild, I wonder if there are competitive environments with politics. Looking from the LabManiac’s videos, they are playing with ultra-competetive decks but still have the politics?

Reaper King and Progenitus are also missing.

generalrenard well, they do exist, however politics in cEDH compared to casual EDH has a major difference.

Casual EDH is like a bunch of people trying to make an empire to crush its opponents, with deals and things, like a bunch of medival empires being built, and cEDH has it where a bunch of countries are aiming to make nukes and toss them out immediately as soon as they can with protection. Sabotage, spys, deals, etc. are too slow when I have a nuke with your name on it. Instead, politics looks like I and two other players napalmed the fourth guy to oblivion because he seemed almost done trying to nuke us, and if he survives the napalm we are dead. Resonably simple.