Flooremoji What does t1 infinite using Godo look like?

T1 infinite godo? I can see t1 stick godo with the help of crypt, vault, whatever it takes, fetch hoth, then take the game t2. I know im missing something lol im just trying to understand

turn one Treasonous Ogre (Rite of Flame, Desperate Ritual, Seething Song) pay 33 life, float 11 red, cast godo, fetch hoth then win. =) not consistent, but a possibility.

legendofa this list is pretty out of whack, I wouldn't trust that anything is set in stone and is very subjective to what the Mods feel compelled to believe. I for one have spotted more than a few commamders placed in the wrong tiers, as have others. In short, who really cares what placements are.

This list seems really weird to me too. Like, I know you can make a Circu deck work with the right cards even though the ability seems anti-singleton but is it really competitive tier? Idk, seems sketchy to me.

And I'm really ignorant on Ghave. What combo's does he enable to get such a high placement? I always thought he was really meh

Also Varolz, what does he enable?

Circu wins the moment you get dramatic scepter, that is incredibly powerful. Varolz prevents the need for a sac outlet in hulk combos. The top commanders are far from random as was suggested, the individuals who run the list are very familiar with the cEDH meta and chose them carefully.

potatopotatopotato

Why I do not disagree with the top tiers too much, the cEDH peeps are not giving credit where credit is due in the lower tiered commanders or unfavored commanders. This is a major shortcoming of anyone trying to create lists (personal biased). I highly doubt any Mod here has built and tuned every single commander and therefore they are absolutely wrong about several of the placements on the list.

ForsakenxEDHx

What are some commanders you think are not in the right tier? I hear you say that you have spotted a lot of commanders were mispaced, which ones? I would like to hear your arguments in order either to enlighten my comprehension or to explain you why they are not ranked higher.

thegigibeast here are some of my thoughts on the matter, dunno if it helps!

Wait... Myojin of Seeing Winds is tier 5? That is the best Omni-Show deck in the format, being surprisingly powerful with proper gameplay, running as a controling sort of deck before dropping Omniscience and going all Super-Saiyan and drawing the deck and casting it all for free. It uses it because when you get Omni out you can cast your commander, then Chain of Vapor, Into the Roil, Snap, and Blink of an Eye it to hand and draw into more bounce and card draw to draw more bounce to bounce Myojin and keep storming off until it hits Enter the Infinite and wins. Surprisingly a really sweet list. Tier 4?

Also, Ragnar is Tier 5? That is the second best commander for creature-based bant stax decks, very close to Derevi. I mean, protecting the other creatures you run is really important, and Mother of Runes and Sylvan Safekeeper can't do a ton against sweepers like Austere Command, so Ragnar really helps the list. Tier 3 for me.

Ayesha Tanaka is a reasonably powerful commander for Azorius Stax, stopping many cards such as Basalt Monolith's untap, Grim Monolith's untap, Dramatic Reversal, Strionic Resonator, Aetherflux Reservoir, etc. Tier 4.

Dosan the Falling Leaf is a reasonably well-powered elf-ball commander, helping out stopping almost any interaction on combo-turn. It really is good, despite not being an elf, it is low-costed enough to be cast on turn two from a turn one elf, and easily go off turn three given little hate. Tier 3.

In tier 4... well there are a lot I disagree with:

Adun Oakenshield is a powerful midrange-combo commander, being good with Hermit Druid lines in a way most aren't. The line is a simple one, using Morselhoarder, Devoted Druid, Dread Return, Necrotic Ooze, and Walking Ballista, yet also is surprisingly powerful with the ability to use the commander to rebuild if the combo is disrupted, using Krosan Reclamation to bring cards back into the deck immediately and Riftsweeper to shuffle back in the Reclamation, the list also can use Adun to bring back key cards to attempt to recombo out the very next turn, given sufficient mana. Backup wincon in Survival of the Fittest/Protean Hulk/Apprentice Necromancer in case you can't access the druid. Tier 3 (Similar to Xira Arien in terms of as a card and power level).

Anafenza, the Foremost has been already discussed, and is much, much more powerful as a stax/hatebears commander than a load of currently much higher rated lists. Tier 2-3?

Arcanis the Omnipotent may not see a lot of play, but instantly wins with Mind Over Matter and is easy to compare to as a slightly worse Azami, Lady of Scrolls. Tier 3.

Dragonlord Dromoka is a commander that always surprises me as a really impressive commander for stax. It even has a relatively effective wincon in beatdown. Being able to stop interaction on your turn, laying out a thicker field of stax, every following turn, while also having a commander that is difficult to interact with (dependent on interaction) is really much stronger than people expect when they see the 6 cmc. Tier 3.

Eladamri, Lord of Leaves is another good option for elfball, leaving extremely little interaction. It can be targetted itself because it was errated, but it is a cheap, effective wall against targetted removal, and so should be considered more often in comparison to other lists. Tier 3 is my pick.

Heidar, Rimewind Master I have only seen once, and it didn't do amazingly, but after I looked at the list was a reasonable Dramatic Reversal Isochron Scepter list that uses all snow lands except for an Ancient Tomb using Scrying Sheets really well. The commander isn't amazing, but the interaction hitting nearly anything while being able to synergize with the countermagic suite the deck runs really seems good in the grindier games, in which it disables most other decks' combos for a turn or so if it sticks. Tier 3?

Linvala, Keeper of Silence is one of the better mono-white stax lists, along with Hokori, Dust Drinker, I would imagine they are better in the current metagame than most would expect. Tier 3 seems reasonable for both.

Masako the Humorless should be tier 5. I don't think this ability is useful at all in cEDH, and when we have Atogatog in tier 5, a commander that could replace many old Scions and Najeelas in the C-Zone and no one would notice in tier 1-2, this card shouldn't be considered tier 4.

I will write up lists for these if you want, but I think most speak for themselves.

For me, Kess itier tier 0 but Jeleva is not?

I would love to see links for the High Power decks. Very curious to see a list for Erebos, God of the Dead, for example.

SynergyBuild If I understand the definitions correctly, anyone trying to optimize a deck in tier 5 automatically bumps it to tier 4. As for your tier 3 suggestions...just imagine those commanders in a pod any 3 of the decks in maximum power. Most of them wouldn't even crack a 10% win rate.

Have you seen Anafenza, the Foremost as a list, it gets absurd rates dependent on the tables, really grindy as a pod list with a commander that shuts off Hulk, Druid, and many Twin/Labman lines.

Adun also puts up results from my experience, a friend of mine has a seriously well-built list, that goes head-to-head with my Tymna/Thrasios breakfast hulk list, only being better against the creature-based stax, and a little slower (I understand a little slower is a big deal, but it isn't a super-speedy list, it is a midrange-combo deck, like Kess Turns.)

I don't know a ton about efball running Dosan or eladamri, but the varients I have seen look like they could switch really easily and have a smooth transition, as many of the best elfball commanders as is aren't being used very much in the decks they helm except for some Yisan lists that are worse than the normal Yisan decks or Selvala (mono-green) that are barely elfball, tier 3 seems low for Eladamri, as he is great against the fast-paced removal that is used against them, and though Dosan will commonly just be removed, it is a good answer.

The rest I haven't seen or know a lot about TBH

Hi thegigibeast, ShaperSavant, tw0handt0uch & LabManiac_Sigi.

Is there any estimation on how long it would take for a new sets legendaries to be evaluated and given their first spot on the list?

I completely agree with Anafenza, the Foremost.

I don't have any experience with Adun, but making a case by posting a list with a primer that explains how the deck functions in various cEDH environments seems a good route to go.

I didn't really understand your Elfball comment. Are you talking about generating infinite mana and winning with Mono Green or swinging in at critical mass with elves? Generally I think Mono Green's biggest weakness is to board clear -- not spot removal -- which neither of the Commanders you listed helps defend against. There's several Mono Green commanders listed in High Power...I imagine they cover Elfball more effectively.

Why "Max Power" above competitive? That's awkward & confusing. "Competitive" should top group I think. But why was that decision made? Curious...

Well given that ShaperSavant is a mod......

Well you can be competitive without being like the maximum power the format has to offer

Also I think it's kinda wrong that you put Yidris as tier 1 without even putting Melt Banana under the decklists bit. Honestly that Doomsday deck is not the best way to play Yidris. On that note I would like to submit both my list and Melt as decklists for Yidris. Melt Banana cEDH Yidris Storm

Rather than just complain about initially not liking the "Maximum Power" above "Competitive" structure, I'd also like to thank you guys for what must have been alot of work to make this. I'll get used to the category names and "Soren841" makes a good point. I'll also be referring to this often so, again, thanks! This is awesome!

I noticed that Azami, Lady of Scrolls is listed at tier 3 instead of 2. I guess I really don't see how that can be. I would like to cite the decklist "Fried Salami by ARCHWIZARD" as a shining example of what this commander can do. I feel like the power level of this deck far exceeds its fellow tier 3 decks and some of the tier 2 decks as well. I'm open to having a discussion/debate about this topic, but I don't agree with the decks position on this list.

Azami p much is just too reliant on the commander imo, and not fast or resilient enough to make up for it (e.g. Sissy, Gitrog, G Selvala)

Hey I commented a while back on Demonlord Belzenlok's viability and how his combo potential should be enough to put him in mid power and I got a response in favor of it but it never got changed. Not scolding anyone or anything just wanted to put the discussion back on the table.

What combo?

So recently 'The Command Zone' did a couple videos on an information gathering project they did. In this project they gathered statistics from 300-ish commander games.

I'll note at this point for the stats they have to be truly useful they need to look at more like 3000 games but I think we can look at what they got and see the beginnings of trends.

In this data they say decks costing between 200-700 dollars have the highest win percentage. Since competitive players often have decks costing in the $1000s I am curious what you guys think of this. Do you come up against $500 decks able to compete with your $1000+? Have you played without your really expensive cards and actually seen a considerable difference in performance?