Well, I'm not sold, but I think I'm outvoted.

I think Jace, Vryn's Prodigy  ^Flip should be higher than tier 4. He makes a great high tide deck like the one here. He flashes shit back, filters, and he is a very efficiently costed general.

IPreferBagels, we literally just discussed this. The list hasn't been updated in a little while because thegigibeast has been away from the site.

Yep. I like the guy, but we're starting to run into the same issues as the previous list: The creator isn't involved enough.

i dont think adun oakenshield is tier 4 worthy at all. he probably should be tier 5 or 6.

I feel like Edric isn't good enough for tier 1. While he is consistent, he is very easy to hate out. A simple Wrath effect, or Engineered Explosives effect, or Counterspell on their win con or time walk effect, or Anger of the Gods effect, or a Tabernacle at Pendral Vale, or Propaganda can completely wreck their odds of winning. The deck isn't even that fast for how much of a glass cannon it is. It usually goldfishes turn 4-5 while other glass cannon decks can gold fish turns 2-3.

I diasaggree with moving Adun Oakenshield down. While his effect is certainly overcosted it provides reusable instant speed card advantage of a sort. He has reasonable utility in a deck centered around Sneak Attack and Survival of the Fittest. He is low casting cost, which is a huge advantage in edh. Also he can be used multiple times a game as sac fodder for Birthing Pod.

The best Edric decks aren't built anywhere close to glass cannon. They're primarily a control build. Edric utilizes extremely efficient creatures with evasion to generate colossal card advantage while controlling the board with countermagic and other answers until he wins off of Beastmaster Ascension. It's still one of the strongest decks in the format. In fact, Edric received a buff from the rules change (aside from the loss of PoK, which wasn't terribly important to the deck). His low CMC and consistent access to a colossal draw engine means he lost almost no speed or consistency. While he's not the best Tier 1 deck, he is stronger than Damia, Azami, and several other top decks.

Speaking of Tier 1, apparently I was mistaken in suggesting Sharuum be moved down. She's still very much dominant in the format. The best builds simply moved from devoted combo to control / artifact-based stax with efficient combo finishers. Most still believe she's the second best Esper commander.

Thoughts on moving Tasigur up? He was brought up extensively before the rules change. With the loss of partial paris, I'm wondering if he's edged out Damia as the best option for Sultai control. It might be useful to open that discussion up again.

Adun Oakenshield and Xira Arien are both better than they look since they provide re-usable, instant speed card advantage in a color combo that doesn't have much access to it. Adun is useful in creature-based combo while Xira is more a goodstuff general, and while neither are super competitive they are both plenty good enough to stay out of the junk tiers.

I'm all for moving Tasigur up. He's an efficient and consistent combo commander in the best color identity in the format. The only reason we haven't moved him up yet is that people were arguing on whether he or Damia were better, and frankly I don't think it matters. It's not like were limited to one commander of each color identity in T1. If were having trouble figuring out which is better, and both are better than 98% of the other commanders, then they both deserve a spot in T1.

I feel like Tasigur is better than damia since he can act as part of the combo with infinite mana. Just need infinite mana and you win without having to find a tutor.

Atogatog should be moved up to tier 5. It's funny and not just a placeholder, but actually kinda okay.

Seton, Krosan Protector needs to be tier 2. If you don't believe me, check out this list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/seton-breakneck-combo/

@MTGTCG I really don't think that he's quite tier two material. Now, I play him myself--with what I would call a close to optimized list--so I'm somewhat biased on the matter, but I think I might have some insights to share, regardless.

For one, the deck generally lacks the ability to tutor for all necessary combo pieces--whether it's Genesis Wave, Primal Surge, Cloudstone Curio, or what have you. Ring of Three Wishes is merely the best of a bad situation. Sure, Krosan Restorer, Argothian Elder, and Gilt-Leaf Archdruid can all be tutored up with relative ease, but it's difficult to secure a win with them alone. Moreover, like mono-green decks throughout the history of magic, the deck gets absolutely blown apart by boardwipes--a simple Toxic Deluge for x = 2 is often enough to set you back several turns at once. What's more, being mono-green, it's hard to have answers for the occasional problem creature (Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite). Beast Within does just fine, but it can't be tutored for with even the slightest degree of speed. Besides, running such answers only increases the odds of whiffing on a Primal Surge. Don't get me wrong, the deck is perfectly capable of going off on turn four or five with relative consistency, and has a solid Tooth and Nail plan B, but only in a goldfish vacuum--in other words, it isn't particularly resilient to disruption. Sure, there are some ways to mitigate this, such as Grave Sifter, but doing so only slows you down. Ergo, I really don't think he's worthy of tier two. Sorry.

Not agreeing or disagreeing but just so you know, I've actually seen Lifeforce do work to prevent some wipes. Even ran it for a time in a few Green based decks. People tend to gravitate towards Toxic Deluge and Damnation. Lifeforce is one of those "gotcha" cards.

Aren't Ezuri RL and Krenko also effected the same way by board wipes? They are tier 2? Why can't Setom be tier 2?

Hmm, interesting. I didn't realize Cobble already optimized Seton. That list definitely looks promising.

And so the army of mono green Tier 2 commanders continues to grow.

Well, Krenko is really a combo deck, so...

NoOneOfConsequence raises some good points, and having consistent combo with an inability to deal with problem cards is the criteria for T3, so we should probably move Seton there for now.

Or, not. Ok...

I'm probably a little biased. I've seen several of Cobblepott's decks, and have interacted with him a fair number of times. I have nothing but respect for his decklists and opinions. That, and the deck shared does indeed consistently goldfish wins by turn 5, with numerous turn 4 wins, which is the threshold for devoted combo decks in Tier 2.

I mean, Seton is no Yisan, but he does meet the requirements. I'm not really a fan of conditionally enforcing deck specifications based on personal bias.

He can goldfish wins on turn 5, but so can Karn, Chainer, Saffi, Skithiryx, and Wort.

I thought we were keeping powerful combo decks that had some sort of Achilles Heel OUT of T2.

Also, how is Seton any worse than Ezuri? They both get blown out by board wipes(are you really going to keep Mana open for regeneration in a competitive game) and Seton is arguably more explosive(at least according to Cobblepot).

So on the tier 2 description, it says that tier two decks are only slightly weaker than tier 1 decks. Does that mean you could take, say, an Omnath deck to a table of Zur decks and Derevi decks and have only a "slightly" less chance of winning than the tier one players? I don't think so. I think we should promote some of the more competitive tier 2 decks up(Captain Sisay, Sharuum, Tasigur, Jeleva) and redescribe the restrictions for tier 2. This way we could promote the decks that are actually quite competitive like Teferi, Temporal Archmage, while keeping "75%" decks like Omnath and Uril separate.

Personally I see Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Omnath, Locus of Mana and Seton, Krosan Protector as more tier 3 material. Ezuri, besides being an elf doesn't ramp or help with any combos. His overrun effect is not really needed once green goes off and its hard to keep mana up to protect your board when your trying to combo off by turn 4 or 5. Seton while explosive doesn't support tutoring or green card draw. Omnath can draw cards off his power but he is significantly slower than Azusa, Lost but Seeking which is also less creature dependent/ board wipe resistant. Yisan, the Wanderer Bard is tier 2 because he can tutor for his combo pieces, find answers to other peoples combo peices, and protect himself from spot removal. 5 mono green generals in tier 2 seems a bit much...They are all close but azusa and yisan seem a step above the rest.