Please look at the decklists/primers linked to the decks to get a better idea how the gameplay roles out. Most of these decks run the package of 0-1 drop rocks that catapult their T2. In other words just imagine you could drop any commander T2 consistently. Which ones are going to excel? Built in free spells, tutoring, drawing are all things that are going to set certain commanders above others.

Epajula, Jhoira is a deck that focuses on getting the commander down turn 2 every game and winning either right then on turn two or on turn three backed up with countermagic and stax pieces. I am not arguing that your choices are bad, because I admit that I have not fully explored the commanders that I previously mentioned. I simply would like you people to explore how Jhoira can consistently win on turn 1-3 (and im not saying that my deck is the perfect example).

And as far as I have read, you people are disproving Jhoira's power without a sound reasoning behind your argument. We are in the same boat. This list is biased towards meta and does not fully explore competitive EDH.

Boy. It was already explained to you that Jhoira is inconsistent without black, and the strategy is heavily reliant on Jhoira's presence on the battlefield. What more could you possibly want? You didn't even pay attention to other users' sound and logical rebuttals and now you're making accusations toward us? Where do you get off dude lmao.

God I have a feeling SynergyBuild is writing a novel about this right now.

Does anyone have a Circu list that I can look at, I really like the archetype I just want a list to start on the basis of.

Furat if all, I don't think you know what you're arguing for. Max to Competitive differences are minute. You don't know that because you didn't read. Also the mods don't need to prove you wrong. You have to prove you are right. Where's the list, and primer? That is how you start this conversation.

First if all, I don't think you know what you're arguing for. Max to Competitive differences are minute. You don't know that because you didn't read. Also the mods don't need to prove you wrong. You have to prove you are right. Where's the list, and primer? That is how you start this conversation.

So for starters. I finished and submitted my paper, and I don't mind writing up a new one for this guy, or should I say ThatGrimGuy (ha see what I did there?).

You say Najeela is the slowest of the bunch, but I would say it's arguably the fastest out of all of them. I know the Najeela deck under the Maximum Power section isn't the greatest, but I doubt you even cared to check it out before you made such a bold statement. Winterblast's Breakfast Hulk list is impeccable and I'd like you look it over and tell me it's too slow. Here. There you go. Click on that. I went through the trouble of finding it so you don't have to.

Not much to be said about Gitrog. The guy in my pod goes off turn two or three pretty consistently. Tier one material no question.

Paradox Sisay isn't really meant to be fast either? It's a Stax deck and is really hateful when piloted correctly, and would easily shut down your precious little Jhoira deck.

Also speaking of your Jhoira deck, while you're here, I just wanted to bring up the fact that you mentioned you're not here to plug your deck even though I simply asked you to link it. So I ask you: Why are you here?

ThatGrimGuy - I could go on about mulliganning with Sisay and Gitrog and how fast they could win, even give stats on specifics, but I think that wouldn't be doing you justice.

I love Jhoira, it is a storm deck with a crazy powerful commander, two synergistic artifact colors, and the ability to run Mox Amber to its fullest extent, a card that screams commander, yet cannot be played in a variety of decks for many reasons. Captain Sisay actually also uses it to a great extent, abusing the commander that can fetch it because it is legendary to cast cards off of Paradox Engine, but again, that is besides the point.

Jhoira commonly needs to be all in to often storm off perfectly, and though by using Retract, Hurkyl's Recall, and Rebuild effects you can increase the amount of cards you draw to keep going off. Using effects that reduce mana costs is the backbone of the deck, and it is easy to see why this works when your commander can be cast using the artifacts you storm off with after she hits.

The issue comes with not depleting resources before you cast Jhoira, keeping jhoira on the field, meaning you have to run enough countermagic and removal to stop opposition, and also have enough to storm off after her, not fizzling when you draw dead lands or dead interaction. This balance requires a lot of work on the pilot to know when you have to mulligan to find more interaction. This isn't easy even for the best pilots in the best decks for the list.

Compare that to a stax deck that can shut off this deck with a well positioned Force of Will, Silence, Swords to Plowshares, or Dismember can not only stop you for a turn, but for many until you can rebuild at which point if a Rule of Law or Arcane Laboratory, Damping Matrix, Thorn of Amethyst, Sphere of Resistance or other random stax card hits you your out until you find an answer, of which your deck needs to run little of for fear of drawing too many when you try to combo out.

Not to menton some stax is anti-artifact, Kataki, War's Wage, Stony Silence, Null Rod, and a lot others will be nearly impossible to win through. The same is true for a lot of decks, but storm in particular due to their reliance on engines like Jhoira, Ad Nauseam or even Paradox Engine itself. These cards have answers, and will almost always lose given that the answer is found. It is sad, but the issue with storm.

Jeleva, Kess, and Yidris storm run tutors and are in black to make up for this, finding their engine before the opposition can answer it, but the card they find it Ad Nauseam, whereas even though Jhoira has already been found, being the commander of the deck, creatures are the easiest things to remove, and this is at sorcery speed to cast, so is weak to everything in essence. This means it is a weak engine, but still fast.

The biggest issue with Jhoira I haven't gone over though. Storm decks run storm cards. They run cards like Brainstorm, Dark Ritual, and Manamorphose if they are in color, these cards let you storm off with or without the engine, Kess Storm can go off with just some good cards in hand, Jhoira cannot do that. You can't storm off with Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Lotus Petal, and a Sensei's Divining Top, it just doesn't work, but with Jhoira it is a perfect kind of hand, you can get her out turn one and have mana up for more stuff, however if your engine is off to any reason, the deck sucks really bad, as sad as it is.

Sisay is a stax deck, not a combo deck, I mean it runs a combo, but that is a finisher after it combos out, you can read more on it, but you are right, it isn't fast, control decks aren't often.

The combo is two turn win, Sisay hits, next turn you fetch Paradox Engine, cast it, cast something, untap sisay, fetch Mox Amber, then Mox Opal, Seton, Krosan Protector, fetch Bontu's Monument, Bow of Nylea, and Mikaeus, the Lunarch, let Mike die, get 3, use bow to put Mike on the bottom, fetch it, then loop this. Monument kills by draining each opponent.

This is all fetchable from the command zone, but also so it stax pieces like Linvala, the Preserver, Kataki, War's Wage, protection like Dosan the Falling Leaf and Yavimaya Hollow and removal like Mangara of Corondor. This outclasses Jhoira on the basis of straight consistency.

Frogger isn't my forteit, so I cannot vouch for it, but going against the deck is rough in many cases, it storms off through the graveyard, so my removal doesn't work. More in-depth descriptions elsewhere are on how it is so fast, but it uses a discard outlet and Frogger to cycle it's deck infinitely, a twocard combo with the commander, of which there are 7 or so other halves. That is insane consistency for combo decks often. Ask someone else for details.

Najeela can be made super fast, control, stax, what have you, it is a five color general with many two card combos with the commander, so that the deck is able to be blisteringly fast, or a slower deck, it is fully up to the pilot, unlike other decks in which the best variants are known. Druids' Repository is a great enchantment that goes through most stax, and it the most popular combo with najeela. She also is 3 mana, and has an occasional win under stax if the commander can just swing around like a kreno deck that doesn't die to Cursed Totem.

I hope you understand my take on this issue, and have cleared up the inherit flaws on jhoira and the reason some decks are better than it, not to say it is trash, just that as is, the deck isn't great in the meta.

SynergyBuild and I have been collaborating on an Aminatou, the Fateshifter Stax list that we have been dubbing Staxshifter.

I play in a semi-competitive playgroup and discovered after some tuning toward my meta, that my deck has effectively 24 favorable matchups out of 27, of which two felt balanced (Daretti and Atraxa), while the remaining one was considerably unfavorable (Chain Veil Teferi) at the time of my first iteration of the decklist. We've since drafted a budgetless version of a decklist we feel may be worthy of a shift in tier from tier 3 to tier 2, and perhaps make its way into tier 1 territory after tweaking the list a bit more.

SynergyBuild has been working diligently in writing up our primer for the deck which can be found here:

Aminatou Staxshifter (Esper Stax Primer)

Commander / EDH SynergyBuild

SCORE: 5 | 5 COMMENTS | 98 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER

Walls of text..

DangoDaikazoku what are all 27 decks?

He has them listed at Staxshifter, but that was just his meta.

Soren841 Without spamming chat with a real wall of text, you can find the list of decks I commonly see in my metagame here. Mind you there is a decent amount of fluff and seemingly unconventional decks I face because it's not a full fledged cEDH environment. My decklist isn't optimized by any means because I am on a budget believe it or not and that's why we drafted the budgetless list. Keep those elements in mind when looking at my list because I never claimed my personal deck was for cEDH gameplay. That part isn't terribly relevant exactly though because I stated that in the context of the background that went into building the budgetless version we are nominating.

What is relevant though is that I was capable of tuning my deck to my specific meta, and decks that were resilient were other planeswalker commanders or decks heavy in planeswalkers. To combat this originally I used Hex Parasite, but since it's useless under Humility I opted for Pithing Needle and Sorcerous Spyglass to hit walkers and provide some added versatility, which works well after flickering them with Aminatou's -1.

If you'd care to read our primer it is still a work in progress, but we provide a lot of detail about how the deck operates and functions. Please give it a read, this is a serious inquiry and we've put a lot of time and effort into putting these lists together.

Look, I think we made a really strong deck, and we both put a lot of time into it, if anyone wants to test it out, give some suggestions, or perhaps want a tier change like me and DangoDaikazoku, that would be appreciated. I think it is competitive if not able be to tuned to max power. That is all. No wall of text, right, Soren841?

Link at Aminatou Staxshifter (Esper Stax Primer)

there are many circu lists to choose from (or want a link to the circucord) but id recommend Winterblast's list. If you have further questions, lmk, or ill give you the circu discord link

staying away from that jhoira discussion. get enough of that from the main discord and sram hijinx.

as for stax aminatou, still dont know what the best build for it is. stax, dd/storm, reanimator all have merits. Glad people are giving it consideration.

chaosumbreon87 I'm glad you're open minded about our proposal at least. I was worried there would be a lot of skeptical people and for good reason. I encourage you to play around with our list though. We pack the deck with lots of oppressive effects from graveyard hate, to ETB denial, to storm hate, to discard, and more. We chose Aminatou to helm the deck because she is resilient to all of our Stax pieces, and has a surprisingly strong amount of synergy with many of them as well.

The problem I personally found with combo lists, and the reason I didn't opt for it instead, is that Aminatou combos are heavily reliant on creatures with ETB flicker abilities to infinitely loop their triggers with something like Altar of the Brood on the field. We effectively kill this strategy with cards like Humility, Torpor Orb, and even Hushwing Gryff like on my list for example. Admittedly, I have not seen Aminatou reanimator variants, but we do have coverage on reanimator strategies as well with our graveyard hate pieces Rest in Piece, Leyline of the Void, and Grafdigger's Cage respectively.

We primarily use Aminatou to filter cards and save ones we want to keep under our discard effects with her +1, while her -1 breaks parity by flickering mana rocks and doing a myriad of things such as resetting walker loyalty, resetting Tangle Wire counters, and going into a turbo-Stasis mode by -1ing her targeting a blue mana source, and +1ing her on turns we hit a land drop. Our walker package also helps out considerably with our turbo-Stasis gameplan as well.

Anyway, I can't help but feel as if you can find all of that on our primer page. I hope we can discuss this more today because SynergyBuild and I are really interested in your feedback, and if our deck isn't quite there yet, we want to know what you guys are thinking is lacking so we can tweak the list accordingly.

DangoDaikazoku oh ive seen it, im just interested in any and all feedback. If youre on the animatou discord, we can talk there or move the conversation. A big thing ive noticed is that she lends herself to combos with animate dead. My personal list is more geared towards dd as her +1 can either pilecrack or win with labman depending on the situation. Let me know if you need me over there. Ive been meaning to try out stax while also utilizing Inspiring Statuary to break winter orb. I might have to ask around the HEMAN (Humility Effective Midrange Ad Nauseam) discord for some directioning but this may be a thing to go for (and finally make use of my back to basics). a nice piece that you might want to consider is Uba Mask that circu utilizes well for hand denial. But feel free to message me on the aminatou deck or over discord if you want to talk

-chaosumbreon87#0851

n0bunga I think you might want to look at commanders like Daretti, Godo, Hidetsugu, Kiki, Krenko, Neheb, Purphoros, and Zada for mono-red. I think those are all the mono-red generals listed in High Power, but that's the highest for mono-red apparently.

For mono-white we have kind of the same thing going on, but Sram is the highest tier mono-white general and seems to be the only one standing in High Power. That seems wild to me though because that means the remaining mono-white generals (near 100 of them) are ranked in the Mid Power and Casual tiers...

I cannot believe that you people are typing up articles just to argue something that, for the most part, is opinion based and is up for debate. Please stop arguing like this list is the only list to go off of. In my OPINION this list is faulty in many many places. For one thing, why is there a "maximum power" when they all perform just about the same as many of the competitive commanders. And if your argument is that the commander deck is powerful witohut running the commander, then I counter this with my own reasoning, why play commander without your general? That is just plain stupid to me.

ThatGrimGuy it's about making the most powerful deck you can. if you can function perfectly without your commander but it helps your plan still then you're stronger for it. Also, the majority of tier 0 actively uses its commander. Arguing that playing commander without a commander defeats the purpose begins to sound a lot like the "spirit of the format," and honestly no one gives a fuck. We're building to win.

ThatGrimGuy it's about making the most powerful deck you can. if you can function perfectly without your commander but it helps your plan still then you're stronger for it. Also, the majority of tier 0 actively uses its commander. Arguing that playing commander without a commander defeats the purpose begins to sound a lot like the "spirit of the format," and honestly no one gives a fuck. We're building to win.

Also, it isn't yours or anyone else's place to tell us what to discuss here. Especially when we're the ones on the topic of this list and you really aren't.

ThatGrimGuy, what is point to argue, if it is not opinion based and up for debate? Would it be better to argue about fundamental theorem of arithmetic?