I mean, for a start, that's just how I am. Moreover, as it so happens, I used to contribute to this list quite regularly up until a year and a half ago--this was back when 'Max Power' was simply 'Tier 1' and included commanders like Damia, Sage of Stone and The Mimeoplasm. Hell, Momir Vig was Tier 1 prior to them getting rid of Partial Paris (which was dumb and not once did I ever hear anyone actually complain about that rule prior to it being done away with), but I digress.

To be perfectly honest, many very competitive decks can reasonably go a whole game without casting their commander--sure, if your commander is one half of a combo, that's obviously a different story, but if you're playing a deck that's primarily about control/stax, your commander is mostly there for your color identity, though, always having access to them makes them an important resource. In any case, I don't see how Chain Veil Teferi or Food Chain Tazri is innately better than insert X combo commander here, especially considering that mono-blue can have a pretty hard time controlling the entire game in a 4-man format.

Oh, and, congratulations on living in a different timezone. What the fuck do you want from me?

Not to disrupt the positive weeklong discussion that's preceded this comment, but I'd like to offer a change of pace and voice my support for considering Mikaeus, the Unhallowed a little higher up the power chart...not necessarily competitive, but at least high power, considering his unique ability to break the persist/undying mechanics like no other commander can. Here's my current decklist for consideration. Considering the number of available combos and the relative ease in finding at least one of them early on, he seems a bit better than mid-power, but I won't be offended if there is dissenting opinion. It'll still be one of my favorite decks regardless.

Here's the decklist: Unhallowed Be Thy Name

I understand Thrasios, but can somebody explain tymna's ranking to me? or is she simply the preferred partner?

I'm not sure what's all the arguing about. Nobody really needs to feel unhappy about the list. If a particular commander you feel is weak or strong shouldn't be where it is in the list? So be it. Nobody can accurately argue with commander is the best or which one should be in what tier.

Commander is a format with LARGE variance. A precon commander with a little upgrades in a 4man format can win, hell even depending on which precon, it can beat a high level one, even a jank talrand deck i made out of my shoebox full of blue spells could beat a high tiered deck 1v1 just solely by being annoying. A commander in the casual section with the right disruption and consistency can make the Tier 1/max power deck look like crap. Of course there are commander & deck builds that would have a lot of trouble against X commander and builds.

But my main point is, no matter what max power/high tier commander you have, there are those decks/commander under the damn radar or low in the "rankings" that would beat you. Take the list with a pinch of salt or a guide and enjoy EDH.

I'm not arguing with this person. I only refrained from explaining the placements on this list because the explanations for these specific commanders in general have been done to death and it's simply not worth the time and effort to explain how they win and why they are rated as high as they are to this person unless they do their own research before throwing around absurd and unnecessarily rude comments with no basis to them at all. Please read the tier descriptions before going off like you know everything there is to know about cEDH. This whole list has been reworked and generals are now ranked on completely different criteria, and the mods worked hard developing this overhaul. If you don't like it then move along I guess and get your toxicity out of here. I would have no problem getting into an entire analysis of each of these Max Power commander placements if you hadn't been so abrasive from the start and simply asked why specific commanders are rated as highly as they are. Instead, you're exceedingly negative and I'm sick of the pissing contests growing rampant on this page when it feels like it's happening daily. If you spoke in a much friendlier manner, I wouldn't have any issue with this. How is "Hi, I haven't paid attention to this list in a long time and I'm a bit confused about a specific placement on it. I was just wondering why X is rated so highly and X is not anymore?" so difficult? That would be great, that would be a perfect way of phrasing your question and people would be more willing to lend a helping hand. I know there are problems with certain placements on this list, but the Max Power commanders aren't the problem. Maybe we can see Yisan drop down a tier, and Yidris and maybe Jeleva can move up one (not entirely sold on Jeleva personally because I still think Kess is just slightly better for a Storm list, but I wouldn't really argue if she made her way into tier one). It's stuff like Ishai's placement that needs to be reevaluated for example, who clearly is out of place in competitive and is only being used for the color combination. Also stating you were around when Momir Vig and others were tier one when the Partial Paris rule was a thing means nothing because the meta was entirely different and you can't draw conclusions from that iteration of the list and this one.

Anyway, I'm rambling now. The lesson here today is to do some research before diving right in with no actual support. Lose the hostility too. Maybe then people will take you seriously and credibly. If you want to participate and contribute it might do ya some good to refrain from swearing all the time. You can start by reading the tier descriptions, and then move on to looking over the provided decklists for each tier description. You can then either look deeper into other lists on your own or provide some reasonable backing for why you think it is not worthy of its tier, or at least ask why it is rated highly without using words that are sure to offend. I have no beef with this specific person, but I just feel like I see the same nature of their comment come up all the time now and it's getting old. I wish the description offered details for why each specific commander was chosen, but maybe that's something that can be done in future updates if the mods decide to update it.

Ok I'm not reading the 3 walls of text that were in response to this moron so sry if I repeat something already said but HOW CAN U NOT SEE WHY TEFERI IS BETTER THAN ANY OTHER BLUE COMMANDER ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED? You literally just lost any credibility u had in this conversation.

I don't know what has happened to this thread, but it seems like every time I go on here people are getting into arguments and nobody is moderating it at all. I feel like we used to be able to talk through things, sort out our differences in a friendly manner, this isn't youtube. It's like somebody came here, dropped a giant death cloud and then left. Maybe we should start over with a hello or something. Like hi I disagree with some aspects of this this list but maybe you guys can hear me out. Some people are still doing that, but I hope more of us can get the clue.

Thanks.

IronBlackZepp I automatically despise you & everything you stand for!! :) You Neutronians make me sick!

n0bunga you're wrong on a few of those (sort of). Najeela is definitely NOT required, as her tier 1 build is about as far from combat focused combo as possible, and Tazri and Thrasios are the outlets but only needed AFTER infinite mana, so it's not relevant the way Sisay's reliance is (it's not relevant at all actually).

I'd actually argue Sisay's strengths as low-cmc removal & a ridiculously good fallback stax-suite if Sisay is removed. Then again, this entire argument is a bit like the classic arguments of who'd win? Iron man or Wolverine?? Too many moving targets to respond in absolutes.

I'm talking specifically about commander reliance and Sisay is pretty much the best option. Even Gitrog is better in that regard because he doesn't care about summoning sickness and Teferi isn't even a creature so he dodges some removal.

Relying heavily on your commander is a weakness, not a strength, but, you know, that aside:

1. Okay, so removing Partial Paris made some commanders less competitive and other commanders more competitive. I mean...obviously. That's not any justification for it in its own right. That's not really anything I care so much about, though.

2. I'd argue that Azami or even Talrand could perform better than Teferi in certain games, but, sure, he's not weak in and of himself--it's his color identity that's weak. Mono blue is not as competitive in EDH as people would have you believe.

3. Actually, it may be the case that Teferi has been tier 1 for a long time, but I think I disputed it even then, frankly--call me a contrarian, I guess. As for Najeela, Gitrog, and Sisay, sure, they weren't where they are now on the list back then (or they outright didn't exist yet) but I don't really require much explanation as to why they are now.

4. I'm not sure if the undoubtedly miles-long comments section on this deck is well-archived, but if you look back far enough, you'll find that I was a regular contributor. The meta of cEDH hasn't changed as much as people's particular dickering over which commanders are best has, frankly.

Neither Thrasios nor Tazri are part of the loop they just fetch a wincon. Najeela tier 1 list is a Hulk, Birthing Pod, etc. Combo list. Derevi functions as a combo piece for Pod AND possibly a combat combo piece but it is definitely not the focus. I hope I didn't sound mean lol I'm just a killer of misinformation ;) batman of tappedout lmaooo

n0bunga I'd say in more than half the games it's not important if she stays on the board but opponents can't know if that's the case. Najeela is definitely a clock and can be turned into massive advantage with other cheap pieces but especially in games that don't end quickly (t2/3) it's all about keeping the opponents busy and distract them from what's going on in the background. Let them waste their interaction on the commander, no problem.

Can someone explain why Jodah, Archmage Eternal is Tier 2? Is it just for his colors?

I heard something like a Jodah storm list running jank like Enter the Infinite for an instant win, and Time Spiral, dunno how competitive it is though.

Probably not tier 2. We all know the issues with this list though..

So general consensus is to move Jodah and Yisan down approximately a tier?

For sure. And Ishai.

Ishai could even go down 2 tiers (down to 4) IMO. I don't see it being near as good as Silas Renn or Ravos.

I can't help but feel as if Wizards could print literally any Partner commander in Azorius colors and it would be better than Ishai. Its color combination alone shouldn't deem it as "competitive" and its ability strikes me as comparable to a Spellslinger Voltron Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest commander who is currently placed in tier 4. Of course, I don't think anyone who uses Ishai plans on casting it from the command zone, but for what it's worth I don't see it as ever being ranked above tier 3.

Sure, bump ishai and jodah down. I similarly never understood why they're placed so high when other cards which are comparable (like DangoDaikazoku says - shu yun is in tier 4 and very similar).

But the argument of moving yisan? Seems... somewhat flawed. Personally I have a list similar to the current one and it holds up well in a combo heavy meta. It's more of a stax deck that aims to put reactive hatebears into play - and this method (though not easy as mono green isn't the greatest for achieving locks) works very efficiently. Provided that the deck is more tuned to a local meta than an imaginary one.

I feel that moving her down is arguable - but fair. Though having spent a lot of time reading godo lists and fishing... I'm sure they're stronger than t3.

Godo could be tier 2, the problem is a single counterspell and it's over. I would say Yisan is a solid tier 2 and the only debatable thing is his being tier 1 in the first place. Like I've said many times, Jeleva and Yidris deserve tier 1 if Yisan and Kess do but they're sitting in tier 2.

Yisan feels out of place in Max Power. He can easily find a home in Competitive, although there is not much of a distinction between the two in my opinion because it just feels like tier 1 and tier 1.5 to me. I can see how Teferi's placement is even questionable as a mono-colored general, but I think it's easily more inherently powerful than Yisan since it has a synergistic shell and the colors to protect itself which is why I think Chain Veil Teferi is deserving of Max Power despite being a mono-colored deck. I've also motioned for Godo to move up to tier 2 because it does have a fast clock as a Godo resolving is more or less a win, but it is easily disrupted as a mono-red deck. I personally think Godo does stand out from the rest of the mono-red generals, however.

Either way, tier 2 Yisan and Godo wouldn't surprise me, and neither would tier 1 Jeleva and Yidris. I am sad that Anafenza, the Foremost is down in tier 4, since her Hatebear list is comparable and arguably just as good if not better than a Teeg list in the right meta, but I think I'd be beating a dead horse by bringing up that discussion again. Ana feels like tier 3 to me, and there are many others who are lower on this list that I feel deserve a higher placement. It just goes to say again that we know this list has its problems, but we can only hope the authors are in the background hearing our concerns. I'd like to see an update by the time Ravnica Allegiance is released, because I think some neat cards have been spoiled and that might give these curators incentive to dust off this page a bit.

My only hope for RNA is that the next set is DNA