That's why we've got that spicy Steel Sabotage lol

Well, Sisay has a different sort of versatility to her. Getting any legendary to your hand is probably worth the mana, as opposed to having to climb the chain with Vannifar. Still, as I said, she could be tier 1 regardless.

I still doubt Vannifar would be t1. He reminds of a Simic Yisan and there already has been much debate on wether Yisan should be moved down or not. As for Sisay, she fetches Paradox Engine in one go, rather than climbing the Chain with Vannifar as you stated. T2 would be my predicted placement, just like Yisan.

generalrenard Okay first, Vannifar is clearly a she. Second, Vannifar's cost is so much less than that of Yisan. Yisan needs that 3 mana before tapping and that's already fast enough for T1 as of now. Vannifar has protection from disruption and untappers/peregrine/palinchron (thanks to blue) as well as no activation cost as long as she can get untapped. Tell me how that's not 110% better than Yisan's deck list.

The fact that the creatures she (thank you I wasn’t able to tell gender) tutors for do not stay on the battlefield. Yisan’s tutored creatures do stay on the battlefield. This means that when versing, Yisan can grab a Quirion Ranger, for example, and use it multiple times throughout the game. The Quirion Ranger that was originally use to untap Yisan again for verse 2 can be used to weaken the effects of an opposing Static Orb after developing a board state. The Quirion Ranger that Vannifar grabs is used once to untap Vannifar, then sacrificed in order to climb up the chain.

The fact that Yisan develops a board state also affects mana production. Big mana producers will not produce as much because there are less creatures on the board. Yisan can also just win through straight combat damage because of he board state he develops.

generalrenard, it's irrelevant because Vannifar wins from 1 activation on any cmc.

Soren841 as much as I am inclined to agree with you, there hasn't been a single line we have decided on that can do that without external resources such as mana or more than one creature. My Trophy Mage/Elite Arcanist line takes 2 creatures and about 6 mana to win and yours takes:

An additional untap outside of the line, a spell to cast OR a mana and an instant/sorcery in the graveyard, or a Spellseeker line with Vitalize, so 2 mana, or drop the untap and have a sacrifice outlet. Then it just goes infinite turns, and is easily disruptable, as your line requires an additional untap AND creature to find protection.

So no, Vannifar can be a pretty good wincon, but doesn't immediately win from one creature.

SynergyBuild I'm just curious what you think of Kaho, Minamo Historian as an alternative to Elite Arcanist.

I can't loop Dramatic Reversal infinitely with Kaho, but have found it to be a promising line to go with, attempting to abuse it to get some other lines has been fruitful, but more mana intensive than the Elite Arcanist variants in most cases. Still working on it though!

It fetches Intruder Alarm, so can be powerful.

SynergyBuild despite the requirements of my lines, I have never fizzled because of them. so essentially she wins from her first activation. quite different than Yisan.

Fair, your deck is made to do that, all I am saying is that a perfect line doesn't exist, that is all. If your deck is made to work with those requirements, it will do them. In my opinion, I think that making your deck do that means you run less interaction, so I am not a huge fan, but it is a great deck nonetheless.

I will have to say though, in favor of Yisan, the Wanderer Bard, that deck uses Seedborn Muse and many other effects on the opponents turns to give it a lot more interaction than it might otherwise have in mono-green. I think that alone makes it a better midrange list than our deck can be. Instant Speed tutor to field is a lot of value.

Why is Lazav the multifarious not at the top?

Honestly, if there was a perfect line with Vannifar, I want to say she'd get banned pretty quickly. Green still has Concordant Crossroads, of course, though I really wouldn't cast it unless you plan on winning that turn.

NoOneOfConsequence with a haste enabler, it wins easily for 3 mana with minimal cards, Thousand-Year Elixir, Concordant Crossroads, and Lightning Greaves all work well. Sadly Thousand-Year Elixir is the only one I can fetch mid-line, before Kaho, Minamo Historian by using Trophy Mage on 3, then casting and tapping the elixir, to get to 4. This is annoying on many levels, turning what could be a 3 mana win into a 7 mana win. The best way to mid-line find the others would be to Spellseeker for a Dizzy Spell/Muddle the Mixture, transmute, then cast, then somehow untap Vannifar again. That takes more mana, and colored mana at that.

As is, Kahocombo is the best one-creature line with no outside cards, but just isn't viable with a normal amount of mana, so to remedy that you need a silly amount of ramp, and that makes the deck a bit bad at protecting itself, even when it gets consistent turn 3s.

Warlock1258 as someone who was one of the first people to jump on Lazav at the time of his release and develop a combo heavy list, I can say that he is incredibly fragile. If he was in Sultai colors he would be incredible with access to nonbasic Hermit Druid for example, but really at best he is just redundancy to primarily a Necrotic Ooze/Buried Alive package which is appears to be dying out in the cEDH realm in my opinion at least. Graveyard lists also get hit hard by Stax.

EDIT: This is my short answer to your question. I can go more in depth later when I get home from class if you'd like.

If there were any creatures with a Sylvan Scrying effect when they etb'd, then you could also get Tolaria West, but, of course, if any such creatures existed, I'm pretty sure we'd have heard of them in other formats by now.

On a side note, Veteran Explorer (one of my favorite cards from legacy) might be worth playing in a Vannifar deck, at least if you play enough basics (and it's a two-color deck, so I'd hope you would, unless you want to be super-competitive and then get blown out by blood moon).

Spellseeker can find Sylvan Scrying, and Trinket Mage can fetch Expedition Map?

Yeah, but that's a little circuitous. Plus, it opens up the combo to counterspells.

combo is already open to counterspells xD if Vannifar gets countered or your sacrifice fodder, you done.

Gotta love the glass cannons...

I definetley understand that Lazav’s colors hold him back. Still, there are few edh decks that can turn 3 someone

Every deck's win on is reliant on spells resolving that doesn't make it glass cannon. It's in blue it hhas plenty

Glass cannon simply means decks that have little to no resiliency if their main wincon is stopped.

Not really. A deck with a sole wincon that has plenty of protection isn't glass cannon. NARSET is, she's very fast, fairly consistent, but basically no protection and a single counterspell shuts her down. Vannifar does not have those problems