Of course, Sisay gets wrecked by a good control deck, and so would Vannifar.

How good she is will be entirely meta dependent.

Is no one going to ask any questions on how weird generalrenard's deck was? No hulk? Dead-Eye in cEDH? Triskellion with no Mikaeus in colors...

I am super confused.

EDIT: Looked at the list. Top tier jank with a line that doesn't work and if did would take to mana, a creature to sacrifice to Vannifar, and any artifact.

crstisalie... but Sisay IS a good control deck... does it wreck itself? If there was a mirror match one of them has to do the wrecking...

What is this even supposed to mean? Sisay is a stax deck, the only non-divergant combo realistic control deck in the format, with permission needing to be blue, red, and generally another 2 colors for answers that are effective. It generally has to have partners or a token-generating commander like Breya too.

Then again, this might be a joke as to the lack of any good control decks, symbolizing the truth that Sisay doesn't get 'wrecked' in any matchup. That would be correct. In fact no Tier 1 deck on this list gets 'wrecked' by any other deck in the format. That is why they are tier 1.

Mmcgeach's Control Zur is a very good list. Probably the best control deck in the format imo, but it doesn't get any notoriety, because people scoff at the wincons... but they are good enough (I've play tested it a lot). When I built my control Zur list, it was very similar to his, with a few card choice differences.

It's a good list, and it usually wrecks Sisay. The only card you really have to worry about in Sisay is Paradox Engine. You counter that, and the deck is done, usually.

The lists up here labled as tier one, aren't the be all, end all of the format. There are other lists that can compete at that level.

You wont counter it though. Have you ever seen a good Sisay player tutor PEngine when there's any chance it would be countered?

Well, to be perfectly honest, the best control deck in the format is some $3000 BUG shell with Muldrotha as the commander. Previously it was Damia, but she was never that great--Muldrotha, on the other hand, is a completely retarded card, letting you replay a fetch, a planeswalker you just ulted, a creature you just sacced, and so on, all on the same turn. He costs 6 mana, sure, but so does Damia.

That being said, control in EDH is generally pretty difficult. It's hard to keep three other players from doing anything--that's what stax is for. Really, in a lot of ways, all the best decks in the format blur the lines between strategies, and just sort of become combo/control/stax/etc. That's not to say that they're necessarily goodstuff decks, but, well, they tend to play a lot of good stuff, as it turns out.

To be fair there's no way of knowing if the blue player is gripping a Force of Will or Pact of Negation ...

Divergent Control is tier 2, a high tier 2 at that. Muldrotha is a bad, tier 3 list. That is when you want PERMISSION CONTROL.

Stax is another type of control. It is stax control, a type that is tier 1.

Either you counter it, or you Imprisoned the Moon her via Zur's ability early, stifle her ability, Cursed Totem, Linvala, STP her, Aven Mindcensor, etc.... There are plenty of ways to stop her. All you have to do is stop her once, then lock them out of the game. Sisay is a bad matchup, when going up against control Zur.

If they're stalling to play the P.Engine, I'm just gonna get more value when I fetch something else to throw a wrench into their gameplan.

And yes, playing control is very difficult (that's why I love the challenge), but if you know your meta, it's not that difficult. The deck has to be geared for your meta.

Bro they don't "stall" they hard stax ur ass

Control Zur plays around stax, and combo just fine, lol.

Also this might just be a little pet peeve of mine, but I really REALLY don't like it when people throw around the term "retarded" when they describe something. I work with special needs people of all ages and I have a family member who is special needs as well. I'm not meaning to moderate and try to be PC or anything here by saying this either, but it's just something that I am personally very sensitive to. The word legitimately offends me and I see it used a lot on this website for some reason, so please if you could refrain from saying it I would greatly appreciate the consideration.

Muldrotha is a bad, tier 3 list? What?

You realize BUG is the best tri-color combo in cEDH, right? And, really, it's more about the control shell than the actual commander--something ranking decks by their commanders doesn't exactly take into account, I guess.

The best BUG control shell you can build packs plenty of permission control, I guarantee you.

Seriously. It's better than Grixis--green is better than red. It's better than Bant--black is better than white. It's better than Esper, as green is also better than white. It's better than Temur, as black is better than red. It's better than Jund, as blue is better than red. There aren't any great BUG commanders, arguably, but maybe that's just because WOTC might be taking account of the fact that the deck that can play Demonic Tutor , Sylvan Library and Force of Will in the same deck is already pretty overpowered. Muldrotha is the best BUG commander, on that note, even if he's not that great.

NoOneOfConsequence, BUG is the best 3 color combo. Control is really not cEDH viable and Muldrotha is overcosted.

You can think all you want that control is not viable in cEDH, but I have a Zur deck that really begs to differ.

Nobody cares about your Zur deck. Wanna know why? Because Tainted Shimmer Zur is still better.

Oooh, someone's triggered. Hilarious!

It's really NOT better, though, but nice try.

Lol, it's nice to know that this thread is as toxic as it used to be. I stopped commenting here when it became apparent to me that ya'll can't talk about a thing you love without pointless insults.

Classy shit, TO.

Yeah, for real Arvail. I wasn't insulting at all, Soren took it upon himself to start talking shit.

Classy dude, there.

I'm about over it, too.

This list of competitive commanders ARE NOT the be all/end all of cEDH. People need to get the fuck over themselves, and their perceptions about what's playable and what's not. There are fringe decks that can make waves in the scene.

I think you should probably take your own advice. You've shared your opinion about what's playable, and that opinion is registered. Anything further than that is just drum beating. Also, tone matters, so take care to make sure that your own contributions come from a mindset that is, above all, polite.

Thank you yeaGO. He's right crstisalie. You said it like 5 times in a row and it gets annoying.

On the subject of fringe decks, I would once again like to argue that Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker is tier 3, not tier 4. Sure, he gets hated all to hell by a billion-and-one cards, but I'm pretty sure most people here have never even heard of him as a commander and are laboring under the misconception that he does nothing. Trust me, Shirei Stax is pretty viable--there are surprising amount of 1-power artifact/black creatures with really awful effects for your opponents to keep recurring.