Soren841 You see that text above me, Soren? That's two people being reasonable about Command Beacon . You, on the other hand, jump at any opportunity to dismissively say that a card is 'shit' and that someone knows nothing about cEDH.

In any case, I still back Strip Mine and Wasteland simply because people run some very annoying lands in EDH. Gaea's Cradle ? The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale ? Maze of Ith ? Serra's Sanctum ? Inkmoth Nexus ? Cabal Coffers ? Don't get me wrong, people have ways of recurring lands, but a well-timed Strip Mine could save you from dying next turn unless your opponents have Stifle or Disallow .

Maze of Ith, Inkmoth Nexus, Cabal Coffers (mehh), and Sanctum (also meh) are pretty unplayed in cEDH. Command Beacon is shit, I don't care what they said. Prossh is the only example of a deck that would consider running it and I'm pretty sure it doesn't because it's a garbage card.

It's like you said exactly what they just said, but added your personal twist of elitism to it. Amazing.

Ok ur right, Gitrog is the only deck because even Prossh doesn't run it.

"(the extra 6 mana makes no difference)"

best.quote.ever!

I agree with the assessment of Strip Mine for the most part with the exception of the fact that it may warrant a slot if you have additional land granters and/or a decent Loam package to recycle it and more lands to hand. Eventually you're going to turn land disadvantage into parity, and from there turn it into land advantage. Still though, I wouldn't mind being down in a game if I killed someone's Cabal Coffers or Gaea's Cradle . That would otherwise put me at a huge disadvantage.

Soren841 You're really not very good at, like, accurately repeating what people say. You are pretty good at using what other people don't say to make yourself seem more right, though.

So it's playable in Gitrog and that's pretty much it. That doesn't make it good it makes Gitrog good. It's still a bad card.

Fellas, please. Stop fighting about such arbitrary things. There's plenty of me to go around.

DiverDown I had no idea they were fighting over you. Dang, would've been way more rude if that was the case, you are mine!

Jkjk, anyway, the whole discussion is pretty over, everyone has their veiwpoints, and I agree with many of them, in fact almost all of them, including Soren's, NoOne's, Diver/Down/Dango/Darknut/Daikazoku's, and n0bunga's.

Soren was probably getting a bit intense on the card's inclusion in Daxos, and while I have to say that it got out of hand, I understand the premise made.

NoOne is right though too, in a meta filled with threatenning lands, some decks could easily include a Strip Mine to have an answer, if their landbase can handle it.

Diver/Down/Dango/Darknut/Daikazoku is talking about loam decks, rare lists in EDH abusing a Life from the Loam , cycling lands that turn it into a hyper-powerful repeatable card draw engine, and lands with good effects like strip mine. Not super popular of a deck, so not exactly mainstream cEDH, but a deck that should run a strip mine.

N0bunga's argument felt okay, however a little weak in comparison. While yes a Frogger deck should use the beacon, it does it in a similar manner it would be run in a colorless deck. When a list can run bad lands because of not needing color fixing, or having tons of lands, cards that are generally low value like the beacon can be easily slot in. I don't play Frogger, so it may be much more valuable than I give credit, but it I am not imagining if it was replaced by another utility land that sacrifices for value, maybe a Ifnir Deadlands or anything else, the deck would be impacted a lot.

Lastly, NoOne, do you find thia discussion has been fruitful? It was me and you that went over these cards in particular, so I wonder if you found it helps. Good chat everyone!

n0bunga I may have mistyped. I meant that the deck runs enough lands and fixing that colorless lands don't severly impact the manabase, making a utility land often better, especially if it can be sacrificed for free (making the deadlands the wrong card, Quicksand is a much better example, apologies) to draw a card. That is why colorless decks even without the colorless symbol run only so many wastes, when fixing isn't a problem, utility lands fill slots, to serve a duty outside of just being another land.

I hope this makes my argument more clear, and I do believe that Beacon should be run in Gitrog, just that it isn't nearly as useful as you may have made it seem. That was all.

If it's not good enough for all but 1 cEDH deck, it is bad. Bad is a relative term. It requires context and that is the context.

At the risk of being a plug, and for fun, let's talk about how competitive this deck is: The Most Expensive EDH Deck Ever (Spoiler: It's horrible).

NoOneOfConsequence I mean... it isn't really that good. I understand why, and don't want to be a hater, but on such a low budget you can't do much better.

Still though, I am impressed by how budget they made that list. I might win a game or 2 if it gets really lucky, which is more than I can say for a deck that costs less than an American Public School teacher's lifetime income.

Calling something good or bad is completely subjective. Sure, it is good card for Gitrog, but it may be a bad one in other decks. Can we just agree to disagree here? I'm inclined to believe that it is a good card since it has considerable application in one of the more powerful decks in the meta, but I can understand arguments saying that it is bad since it doesn't universally hold up and warrant a slot in other decks. Both arguments are valid depending on the perspective. Let's move on from this one my dudes.

In a very specific commander that likes lands dying. There's outliers in everything. In the context of cEDH (the only one relevant here) it's bad.

n0bunga also, I am glad we got that all cleared up. It is a powerful effect on a land, but doesn't have good utility outside of some 1-4 decks, of which Gitrog is the tier 1 list that can use it, Prossh at tier 2, and Muldrotha/Windgrace at tier 3. That is about it that I could argue should run the Beacon, and Prossh runs it as a flex slot. Soren841 just has a different definition of 'good' or 'bad' cards than you. I don't know I am comfortable defining those terms at all.

I think a card like Dosan the Falling Leaf is good, but it is a worse Grand Abolisher in a color with all-stars like Autumn's Veil or the super-interesting rules-implications of City of Solitude , but in Sisay it can be a great fetchable target. Same in Prime Speaker Vannifar or even some Yisan lists, while many don't run it due to it's reliance on instant-speed interaction, despite most being ability based.

But, with such few inclusions, is it a bad card? It isn't a staple, but because of its use at all in cEDH, in comparison to cards like Lava Spike , staples in formats like modern, I could easily argue it to be a good EDH card. Command Beacon I find falls into the category of Dosan, not a staple, useful in a few decks in EDH, but not at all in other formats, for more obvious reasons nonetheless.

I think this makes it pretty meh, but a card that should always be kept in mind for land-based EDH decks and decks that plan to recast commanders.

Except Dosan is a powerful effect, which is printed on several other cards that are played as well. This specific version of the effect has more specific applications than, say, Grand Abolisher. It also is good for green decks that aren't in the right colors for the others. It's also an effect that decks actually want. Command Beacon is a much less desirable effect.

Command Beacon is relevant in Tetzimoc, Primal Death , since it's one of the few ways, if not the only way to enable him as a commander if we are speaking in jank terms of course lol.

Also, Soren841, you are misconstruing the "context of cEDH" with that of your own opinions. Like I said, it is not bad in Gitrog, but it may be bad for other decks. Different perspectives yield varying opinions. I want to drop this discussion on that note without you coming back and saying it's bad again. We understand how you feel about it, you don't need to restate it again.

Soren841 I respect that opinion, I could argue the rarity of that ability, being exclusive to the tower, for commanders other than eminence/Derevi, interacting well with the command zone.

Either way, both are kinda meh IMO. I agree Dosan on its own has a higher ceiling than Beacon in a more various number of decks.

Updates for Ravnica Allegiance! But first:

It's unfortunately become necessary to implement some changes to increase the quality of discussion on this page, which has been rife with personal attacks and uncharitable debate. We've banned the most egregious offenders from posting here, and have sent warnings to others that need a reminder to keep discussion high-quality and civil.

Making it very clear: personal attacks will not be tolerated. Treat others' opinions with charity. Treat your own opinion with humility.

Overall, a lot of the card analysis (often especially from confident posters) is often misguided or inaccurate, so please take what you read in the comment section with a grain of salt. Apologies to anyone negatively impacted by other commenters; please get in touch with the maintainers of the list if you have further concerns.

Changes: (Remember - these are early placements and may change with more development)

Judith, the Scourge Diva added to Mid Power

Lavinia, Azorius Renegade added to High Power

Nikya of the Old Ways added to Mid Power

Prime Speaker Vannifar added to High Power (*)

Rakdos, the Showstopper added to Mid Power

Teysa Karlov added to Mid Power

The Haunt of Hightower added to Mid Power

Zegana, Utopian Speaker added to Mid Power

...

Xantcha, Sleeper Agent moved to High Power, with plans to evaluate potential placement into Competitive.

Xantcha Combo-Control

Commander / EDH mmcgeach

SCORE: 16 | 7 COMMENTS | 2559 VIEWS | IN 12 FOLDERS

Yeva, Nature's Herald moved to High Power.

Yeva Draw-Grow Combo

Commander / EDH Inkmoth_

SCORE: 80 | 44 COMMENTS | 4059 VIEWS | IN 22 FOLDERS

(*) A note on Vannifar: Vannifar has caused a lot of excitement in the Competitive community, but the decklists and lines that have emerged so far seem to be below the threshold we would be comfortable considering Competitive. We plan to keep a close eye on this high-potential commander and will move it to Competitive if and when a suitable decklist has emerged.

n0bunga I don't think either of us were suggesting you run Dosan? I certainly wasn't. That definitely was context - in the context of cEDH, it is only really that good in Gitrog. That's not very much, if you ask me. It's pretty bad everywhere else.

thegigibeast, what specifically is keeping Vannifar from Competitive in your eyes?

Well, that's pretty disappointing. I can't disagree with any of those choices (except Vannifar, maybe) but with how many powerful cards they've been printing in that set, I can't say I'm too impressed with the new commander options in terms of power. Plenty of fun otherwise, though.

You banned players? also, thegigibeast, what did I get a warning for? Just wondering, or was that just in case and not based on previous discussion, in which case I'll make sure to not attack anyone!

Btw this is just to askl, not saying I don't deserve one!

thegigibeast Do you think we could get a section in the description dedicated to comment etiquette? I think if there was a column outlining what is expected and what will not be tolerated would be a great inclusion so people who comment here in the future know what will constitute a banning, even though it should be obvious haha.

I really appreciate you guys taking action on this issue. Let's get this page back to a friendly environment for everyone!