The only general I was surprised to set in the "casual" category was Vela the Night-Clad. I feel like a tuned Vela deck can hang in the "mid-power" category. No?

There are just better cmdrs in Dimir, such as The Scarab God.

need a good Ramos, Dragon Engine competitive list :C

I have a relativity budget prime speaker vannifar deck Looking for soon suggestions on making it more reliable/midrange when the combo doesn’t work?

Some*

Why isn’t the link working well here it is written out https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/03-04-19-wZo-prime-speaker-vannifar-combo/

I think Naru Meha could be at least competitive and not high power it can win on the spot and control the board with easy and it's not that clunky as teferi chain veil

decklist

Naru Meha Competitive (Playing With Power MTG)

Commander / EDH ryanstreet

SCORE: 6 | 6 COMMENTS | 1520 VIEWS | IN 4 FOLDERS

@skyhaven

“Naru Meha could be at least competitive”

“not that clunky as teferi chain veil”

Yet I see ETB tapped rocks, Reliquary tower and a few other very doubtful choices (for example, I’m unsure how helpful are all these extra turns). And calling one of the best decks in the format “clunky” in the same post doesn’t make for a good first impression

JohnnyCRO

I'm working on that version.

second of all, I play Chain veil in my opinion if done correctly this could at lease give chain veil a run for its money.

and clunky might not be the best description, but it takes a lot of stack knowledge and manipulation to go off. This being a really high order not making any mistakes.

n0bunga

The ludicrous amounts of salt people throw at you when you talk about one of the top commanders... Yes I gave a bad list MY BAD but I'm working on correcting my wrong ...

First, of in my opinion, it is not an easy deck to pilot. I stated that clunky might not be the best word to describe it but, this does not change that chain veil is not an easy deck to pick up nor play...

Second, Boosting my ego? Sry but that is not what I'm trying to do here. Your words, not mine.

Third, Teferi and Naru are a completely different kind of decks. They both win on a completely different way.

I'm in no way trying to belittle Teferi. Me stating that Naru could give Teferi a run for his money still stands, but I do not disagree with that Teferi is better as a command cause of the 2 abilities, this makes him Optimal and not only Competitive.

And if people don't like it what I think sure disagree. We all are just human no need to get rude.

1) this is a list aimed at full optimization. It’s ok if you provide a suboptimal list for suggestions, but you’re submitting a list for a really high tier. Thus, a refined list is expected.

2) “clunky” isnt synonymous with “hard to pilot”. Clunky decks have robust, low utility components that get in the way of fast wins. Clunky decks are closer ro “bad decks” than to “hard to pilot decks”. This isn’t a list of “easiest to play edh decks ever”. This is a tier list. And even though making lists complicated just for the sake of it is just as bad as making them simple at the cost of power level, it’s expected for decks to be intricate. And complex lines and combos are encouraged if it makes the deck better. On top of that, Teferi is a control deck (stax/control/whatever), and control decks themselves are really hard to pilot in general. Even more so in EDH where threats are more numerous and card economy is more complicated. So implying that a good competitive control deck should be simple to pick in order to be good doesn’t make sense.

3)I won’t comment on the ego thing.

4)I agree that they’re very different. And yet you’re the one who directly compared them first without any context...

5)calling a deck “clunky” can be belittling. But nevertheless, I think that it was the fact that you used that term for one of the strongest decks in the format that enraged some and made it clear that your view of the format might be unrealistic and unreliable. No deck is above being criticised, but coming out of nowhere and calling one of the best decks around “clunky” while providing a sub-par list of a tier 3 general as an argument is not criticism. Responses to your “criticism” are only to be expected with such strong claims and weak arguments.

6)I hope this bit wasn’t aimed at me. I surely hope my remarks aren’t coming off as “rude”, for I’m honestly putting out my remarks to test my own opinions and possibly learn something new. If I turn out to be right though, that just means that my opinions created beforehand with the same scrutiny are good. I’m not interested in bashing anyone nor do I tolerate ad hominem attacks myself. I’m just criticising your arguments and conclusions honestly and transparently, I have nothing against you.

Would you like a decklist with your salt?

In the interest of healthy discussion @n0bunga & @skyhaven I think it's safe to say there's been some miscommunication.

Firstly: skyhaven posted an incomplete list with the intention of getting some recognition - it came across like they have little information about the cEDH format based on the claims made.

It's justifiable that they think it suboptimal, as the vast majority of cards are low cost in the format, and seeing a deck with an a+b plan that involves two 6-drops to win. However, they acknowledged their mistake quickly and said they're working on a better way to present their argument (likely by upgrading the decklist provided).

Secondly: skyhaven misunderstood the 'boosting' comment. After rereading this I can assure you there was no mention of ego. But the argument that naru is better than teferi (something people have spent thousands of hours collectively working on and testing) feels quite biased.

Naru is cool and there is probably a deck out there waiting to be built that shows just how cool she is.

While n0bunga is right that the posted list isn't as competitive as teferi, it feels like the reaction was a little much.

Sky, you've been given advice on what to do from here & n0bunga is it fair to say that people who aren't as well versed in the format as yourself can misinterpret something like this? We aim to accept discussion with a grain of salt.

If my writing or comments where offensive I apologise to everyone involved. they way I write needs a lot of improving, I was not trying to be hostile in any way.

about the decklist and my knowledge about cedh: it's true I'm new to Cedh and I'm always willing to learn new stuff about the format. The decklist is not what it should be and can be improved in a lot of ways, I'm trying to work on that and provide a hopefully a better list that might actually good.

CyborgAeon thanks for the third party intervention.

n0bunga I really need to reread everything i write or comment on Sry if i offended you in any way.

I've lost to Teferi enough times to say, "wut?", in the face of a comment that believes Teferi is less than what he's been placed. That commander is ridiculously strong and it shows a lack of format knowledge if you think otherwise. I have also played against 6 Naru Meha, Master Wizard decks, ones so tuned the pilots themselves are convinced they belong in cEDH, yet I've beaten them with relative ease. I would love to see a badass Naru Meha list one day, but I don't think she's there yet.

I think Adeliz, the Cinder Wind deserves a spot at mid power, if not high. I'll get to making a decklist to prove it. By no means is it competitive, but I think he's definitely good enough for at least mid power.

I tend to have a very different approach to this. I'll happily waste my time working on awful decks to try and help to reach the epitome of what a deck could realistically achieve with its' limitations & synergy.

At the end of that, I'll happily look back at the deck and go "Wow. This sucks" - at which point, it's more often than not that I'll advise them where I'd rank it; the best way to help somebody is to get them on your side.

With that in mind; I actually am interested in asking if we can get a confirmation on a few things:

Midrange Najeela is one of the top tier decks. Similar to the partners (who are actually placed in a silly number of places) I feel like there are a few other cEDH brews out there that should be recognised.

While it'd take a monumental amount of time to categorize every variation on T&T or PST, it's not unreasonable to have a short "We think Midrange Najeela is optimal for x reasons; some other styles include:" it's only small adjustments to the description, but that sort of addendum (especially on why 4c Rashmi is represented by partners in her place) would go a long way.

WhatevWorks - if you're trolling, well timed. But if not, you could read the short array of comments above, it'll really help you to uhh... how you say: not get dunked on.

CyborgAeon- yeah, that was a joke. I saw the comments above and couldn't resist

Hi, I think Demonlord Belzenlok should be moved from casual to mid power maybe high power. This commander can be turned into a one card combo from the command zone (i-e cast Belzenlok if not interrupted you win). Since you only need 6 mana go off the deck can consistently attempt to win turn 4-5. However, it does require a very tuned deck to do this. Here is a link of a decklist with the combo explained in detail: https://deckstats.net/decks/59524/1263552-one-card-combo-demonlord-belze/en

Well an ideal hand has two lands that tap for 2, Ancient Tomb, Mage-Ring Network (there are 17 of them in the deck) etc... That way you combo off turn 4, with only 1 you go off turn 5. Anyways, I think it's very predictable, probably not competitive, but it is powerful and consistent. To my knowledge the only other 1 card combo from the command zone is Godo.

second that on Godo been seeing a lot of play in the shops i go to always places top 3 most of the time

After Lin Sivvi's performance at the r/cEDH tournament, could she get moved form Mid to at least High? She's significantly better than many in High, and even some in Competitive.

The list from the tournament for reference:

https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/white-rebel-motorcycle-club/

Bazzul I love the deck btw - though it won't likely compete with Godo, that's ok.

For real though, love the brew; I tried to work something out with Belzenlok when he got spoiled, so seeing this puts me to shame. Nice one.

Bazzul check out the spoiled: command the dreadhorde. It makes your combo a lot more compact.

Thank you CyborgAeon for the comments. I'm still debating about the stax lands, (I was specially thinking about Glacial Chasm ) because they slow down the plan. Regarding Bone Picker it's more of a plan B, if any player has a forest you don't need to cast it (you have 3 creatures already to flashback Dread Return ( Demonlord Belzenlok , Hollow One and Deepwood Legate )), even if there are no creatures in play you can always hold priority when using Phantasmagorian 's ability to delve for Sultai Scavenger . I do like the new spoiled card though. Don't know if it's worth a spot because of the life loss. I added the details to the decklist