Talrand isn't casual enough said.

To elaborate Current tier #4 would just be called tier #5, and current tier #5 would be tier #6 now. Now understanding this change will create a small vacuum in the new tier #4, I suggested about 35 commanders from tier #3 move down into this new tier #4, but I haven't assessed how many New Tier #5 might move up into the New tier #4.

Quick glance cards like akroma, Atheros, and zada would be commanders that would fill this new tier #4 in my opinion

6 tiers was a mess. As is, we just have Strong Competitive, Weak Competitive (relatively speaking of course), Strong Casual, Meh Casual, and Basically Unplayable Even For Casual Casual. The 6 tier system just makes things more messed up, here we have very clear boundaries.

well your "weak" competitive is very competitive just not top tier, and your strong casual has commanders that are still way stronger than the rest of your casual ranks. I don't see how creating a 3rd tier of competitive is messy in any way. If anything it will give more commanders there respected homes, and allow for a clearer picture of what casual commanders are useful.

@Prime_Time personally, I really think 5 is fine.

tier 1 and 2 are competitive, with 1 being the best of the best, tier 3 is strong, but not competitive, tier 4 is okay stuff, and tier 5 is unplayable stuff.

That's exactly what Weak Competitive is supposed to be. Competitive, but not top tier. Tier 3 is basically everything that's solid but that are a bit under Tier 2. There just happens to be a lot of commanders there because that's where a lot of optimized decks fit.

I've started a new copy of this in order to give people a preview of what I'm talking about. If people agree with the new 6 tier hope Gigi will work it into this forum, I'm not so good with the editing tools. Hey check out my deck [List] EDH Generals by Tier

A friend of mine built Titania, Protector of Argoth and it is the most terrifying deck in our meta. That is taking into account the Sharuum Combo deck, the Meren Stacks deck, the 3 ghave combo decks, the 2 azami combo decks, and the Maelstrom Wanderer land destruction deck. It's built as a stripmine themed deck and its disgusting. It wins almost every week. The point is mainly destroy your opponents lands by sacrificing your own so you lock out your opponent whilst making 5/3 beaters. Idk if that's the deck your basing its tier on, but that style of the deck is worthy of tier one placement.

That seems fairly slow to be tier one. Strip Mine can be played a maximum of five times per turn, which is okay, but that requires the godhand and a bunch of tutors. All of the cards that get you there are extremely vulnerable to hate, and that can happen at a minimum of turn 3, assuming everything goes right. I think Titania's good where she is, just personal opinion.

Six tiers was garbage. It's too hard to find a way to make six tiers not garbage. Five tiers is fine. Maybe tiers 3 and 4 need some more tweaking, but another tier just makes things more convoluted. As for some of the other topics;

Ezuris; I've yet to see Claw in action, so I don't feel comfortable contributing to his placement. Renegade Leader is definitely worse than Yisan, but I don't think that should disqualify him from tier 2. To me, he feels much stronger than pretty much every tier 3 general, and at worst on par with other tier 2 generals. Yes, he's worse than Yisan. Yes, his strategy is fragile to wrath effects (though he rebuilds post-wrath better than most generals). Still doesn't feel tier three to me.

Marath; I mentioned earlier in the thread that I've never seen an optimized list, and it was pointed out that he's basically a slightly worse Ghave. However, unlike Claw of Progress or Daretti, he's versatile enough as a card that I think puts him over the edge as far as tier placement. He's basically the creature version of a command. I'd keep him in tier 2 for now.

Avacyn; I'm on the opinion that Avacyn just straight-up sucks. Setting aside that she's ridiculously expensive in the worst color, she's much worse at Stax than many other legends and is much worse at Worldslayer shenanigans than many other generals too. I've played against her at casual tables and even there she was really bad.

Memnarch; a relic of the past, I don't even think he's as good as Muzzio or Arcum in mono-blue MUD strategies. His reputation makes his pilot a target too. Still can destroy casual tables though, so tier 3 is fine for him.

Daretti; I think he's tier 3 for now, but with how Wizards has pushed the red artifact strategy the last couple years I could see him getting better over time and maybe moving back up. New mulligan rule hurts his current standing though.

Roon; this card is nuts. Should stay where he is.

Slobad; probably tier 3. Slightly worse than Daretti, but a Sylvan Safekeeper for rocks in the command zone is pretty powerful nonetheless.

Kaalia; always felt tier 3 to me, but Kaalia truthers are a powerful bunch. Not only is she dependent on combat (in of itself, not a death knell, but still not a strength), but she's in the worst wedge/shard.

Sen Triplets; I really want to build a list now that the new mana rule exists. She's definitely one of the coolest cards out there and probably creates some wacky games, but she's a weird enough card that I don't know how to evaluate her as far as tier placement. The ability to Silence opponents is interesting for combo purposes, but I don't know how to take advantage of them in a way that makes her one par or close to the other Esper generals.

The only commander currently in tier two that actually requires any sort of movement whatsoever would be Memnarch, and we're all more or less in agreement about that, anyhow. Nevertheless, I can understand the need for broader perspectives, heavily though I may wish to discuss tier three instead.

I mean, really, it just doesn't feel right to have thoroughly mediocre commanders (Not color identities) like Dromar, the Banisher and great commanders like Feldon of the Third Path lumped together in the same tier. I mean, yes, there are unspoken-of subtiers within each tier, but still, there is clearly much that needs doing in tier three.

I'm not sure there's a correct answer to that problem, as a mediocre commander can play up in certain strategies and color combos. In the example of Dromar, he is a mediocre card, but as a backup option for an Esper combo/control deck, his ability can buy you some time and even be backbreaking against other strategies. He's definitely worse than Zur and Sharuum in that he can't contribute to combos, but he does give the deck a different angle as a fallback plan or stall engine that some people may find important. Is that worth tier 3? I don't know, but I'm not sure there's a perfect solution.

I view a lot of tier 3 as commanders that look cool but people have no real experience with or against, or are strictly worse than other options in their colors but still play okay, or are too new for there to be an optimized list. There is some junk that could be moved down (Silumgar, the Drifting Death, Ojutai, Soul of Winter and Thrun, the Last Troll come to mind), but for the most part I think the tier is pretty fairly situated right now.

You could use Dromar, the Banisher to send all of Ezuri, Renegade Leader's elves back to his hand hahaha!

I think that if we maybe look a little more at some of the commanders that tier 3 has we can easily see that some just can't keep up. I view tier 3 on the lower end of competitiveness. I feel like I am just beating a dead horse by saying this, but Avacyn, Angel of Hope is one of the cards that I feel just doesn't belong in tier 3. It is overcosted to be of any use. In a casual setting, it does just fine because there aren't any, or as many, combos and the player will actually be able to play Avacyn. In a competitive setting, I feel that she just can't hold up.

Ezuri, Claw of Progress I still think could be moved down. I played a small game with some of my more competitive friends and one guy was playing Ezuri. It fell apart for him pretty fast because we chumped blocked a lot of his people and when Sage of Hours was cast, everyone pitched in with countering it. I don't think this Ezuri can really hold up as well as the other. If it gets the sage combo off, sure. But if it can't it just kinda sits there trying to pull off other combos or synergize with its deck. It is to strong to be thrown into the casual tiers, but I don't think that it is tier 2 material.

As promised Leinahtan here is what I hope is a tier 2 version of Sidisi, Brood Tyrant. It has double the number of creatures than the version NarejED linked so Sidisi is a more integral part of the deck design, but many of the win cons are the same. Also I couldn't resist making The Gitrog Monster a key combo piece to the deck, because All Hail Hypnotoad!!

She sold her soul to create the mold

Commander / EDH* wagnerr2

SCORE: 2 | 654 VIEWS

I'd like to point out that kangee, aerie keeper, thought not a complete boss can be built into a brids-pump deck. Also he's U/W which I consider a stronger color commander. And there are good synergy birds if you dig deep enough for them. All that considered i'd say he deserves to move up.

Also is giest of saint traft really that unplayable as a commander?

Lord of tresserhorn, clearly has allot of casting draw backs but with reacurring creatures like gravecrawler couldn't you see him getting cast a bit easier. I mean after all hes a 10/4 regen body. Might be able to move him up.

Agree about Ruhan as well. +1 vote. move him up.

Slobad +1 vote, move up.

Vrosh, the hunter. Is he really that bad, looks like he has more promise that your giving him credit for. Still over all bad but leagues above the rest in that tier.

And has anyone actually at least checked out the page I made trying to build up a new tier #3? Please check it out and comment if you would be so kind. I'm sure I made a few mistakes on placement at least a few, but without feedback and support it's the best I could do. Narejed, thegigibeast would be great if the two of you would take a look and comment as I feel like you have the greatest influence in this forum. thanks.

@yavimaya_Eldred Thrun Fits in tier #3 I think, He's a great voltron commander.

sidisi gets pay in competitive tournaments. Its a 5/8 kind of commander but that's just the kind of commander that we want in tier #2, right?

@Dredge for life strip mine can get played at least 5 times in a turn, summer bloom alone lets you play it an additional 3 times, explore additional 1, and in U/G kiora, and urban evolution. but yeah I get what your saying exploration, oracle, and Azusa are more consistent.