So what if we take out "if left unchecked" from the description of T2?

Just so all know, that's the root of why I said I disagree with his move.

If it were to be "...by turn 5 with minor/moderate disruption..." I'd be all about the change.

@nyctophasm

Jhoira is ranked tier 2 b/c eldrazi exist.

Mogus is ranked tier 5 b/c by himself he just deals 2 damage each turn. no one will ever sac to him.

The problem with the argument "you can cast Tooth and Nail by turn 3-4" is that you require one specific card in your hand. While powerful, tooth and nail is one in 99 cards, and green has.exactly 0 tutors for instant/sorceries. Outside of drawing it, there is no way in mono G to consistently get one sorcery in your hand, let alone resolving it. By that standard, I can say "my Arcanis deck is tier 2 because I can play Mind Over Matter by turn 3-4" while U has a hard time tutoring for enchantments. I understand this may not be the same situation, with Arcanis costing 5 instead of 3 and U having access to an abundance of card draw, but the basic principles of the statement apply.

Ohthenoises

yea, I can see what you mean... Maybe it is just that my experience was not that good when I built my Omnath deck... And it as been around two years for me also :)

And yea, removing the "if left unchecked" part of all the tiers descriptions I think would be a good idea, what do you guyz think? sonnet666 NarejED

So I say we must open the votes then. Where will Omnath end? Let the community decide!

If "left unchecked" is changed then I'm all for T3.

If the description of T2 doesn't change then T2 is where he belongs if only on a technicality.

Omnath tends to fold to hate which he tends to garner since the floating mana makes him ginormous. TBH if he didn't get +1/+1 for each green mana floating he would be a better commander since he wouldn't register on the threat meter as badly.

"Strong Tier (Competitive)Only slightly weaker than the decks in Tier 1. These commanders are still capable of holding their own in any match, and they can usually win matches or set up unbeatable board states by turn 5 if unchecked. They usually have more problems with speed and / or consistency than the tier 1 commanders, and may have more cards that can hose their strategies. Commanders in this category typically have more than one avenue of deckbuilding."

I would say Reaper King is easily justifiable as Tier 2 given the qualities above, if not only for his Changeling capabilities. With a lot of colorless mana rocks such as Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, and Mana Vault, he is not a difficult card to cast. He is by no means a combo deck, but is designed to control the board. It can utilize all five colors for removal and for tutoring, and if Reaper King is in play all the Changelings become Vindicates. Seems narrow, right? Well, you don't actually need Reaper King in play for this deck to work.

This deck runs tribal staples like Rooftop Storm and Timber Protector to pump the Changeling creatures and give each one more value. Even some Slivers benefit the build. Reaper King, while definitely the most destructive path to victory, is not necessary for the deck to function at a competitive level.

Granted, the Tier 2 build for Reaper King is disgustingly expensive, but it works.

I think I'm tier 2.5 on Omnath. He's really cool, but I don't know that he has enough options for retrieving wincons. I'm fine with him either way.

Omnath, Locus of Mana in my opinion should be tier 2. Like others have said, he allows so much value as a commander. He allows for a huge amount of ramp and he can draw a huge amount of cards. One of the first decks I played was OG Omnath and I only lost because I had yet to understand the game. But the power Omnath brought allowed me to compete with the little knowledge I had of the game. Changing the tier description would lower his tier status but I feel that would change a lot of tier statuses. My biggest complaint with trying to generate a tier like this is that fact there are so many variables when it comes to edh. Keeping the tier list at unchecked makes the most sense because that is the only way you truly see a commanders power.

This question might seem silly, but regardless I'm going to ask: how can any deck consistently win by turn 6 if it's playing other decks that can consistently win by turn 6? My meta is on the edge of competitive (if you run a super competitive deck it's pretty much you versus everyone) so I do not see decks that consistently win by turn 6.

One more thing, is Mogis, God of Slaughter really that weak? Someone said that alone he does nothing and that's why he is where he is, but he isn't alone. He has 99 other cards meant to work with him. I've never played against one so I don't have any experience with it, but my friend is making one and he seems pretty excited about it.

Aggro-Blaster, that's exactly what I mean. I realize that his upkeep step ability is no great deal in and of itself, but if he ever goes online, he's a freaking indestructible 7/5 beatstick! In the colours that kill everything else the best. In a deck with 99 other cards, as you say, designed to be capable of either some of the best aggro or the most grief-inducing control cards in the game. If in a vacuum, then yes, I guess it makes sense that he's as low as he's ranked. But to me, Mogis, God of Slaughter is an amazing commander. Not least of which is for the purposes of mitigating incidental lifegain, a serious consideration against people who play Oloro, and Orzhov decks. At any rate, I think he might deserve to be tier three rather than four.

And yes, I'm going to post my personal deck he commands. I do not call this deck competitive, but my goodness those colours have access to some nice deck ideas.

Mogis Hellbent

Commander / EDH* nyctophasm

SCORE: 7 | 14 COMMENTS | 1852 VIEWS | IN 7 FOLDERS

Mogis by himself does almost nothing as a commander. Best case scenario, he's getting in for 7 and making everyone else sac their guys once per turn. He has no inept synergy with anything in his colors, and if you can't get 7 points of devotion he's just an over costed optional Sulfuric Vortex without the life gain prevention. He lets your opponents choose, and there's no way to abuse the ability in his colors. You can double the damage, but that's still a 10 turn clock at best. Nekusar, the Mindrazer has the same problem, but he can randomly kill everyone at the table. Moguls does max 4 damage per turn, with no 2 card or even 3 card combos that outright win the game.

I have played both with and against Mogis. Some people take the damage because they still just see him as an enchantment. As Dredge4life said, there is still a 10 turn clock, and that's on top of the first couple turns it probably took you to get him out in the first place. In a more competitive environment people will have found ways to either exile, bounce, or sac him. Some people I know even have ways to not take the damage, thereby rendering him completely useless at the table. If you make him into a creature then awesome. He still needs a way to be unblockable and/or be given trample. Both of which aren't something his colors commonly do (the best I can think of is something like fear with black, but then if you are facing a mono black opponent or artifact creature opponent, then they still block you). Even then, because he's a creature and not an enchantment, that opens up cards like Path to Exile or Swords to Plowshares as alternative ways of dealing with him if you can't deal with the enchantment form. Even then, I would be more concerned with some of the other creatures or enchantments that you could run with him because of his colors. Is he fun? Heck yeah! I love playing as him. Can he pull some shenanigans with his colors? You bet! Should he be moved up? Debatable. I would argue no. IF he is moved up, he would be on the lower end of tier 3 commanders. My apologies if I have come off as harsh, nyctophasm. Just expressing my opinion. I mean no offense.

No, fair enough trinitok. The concerns raised over his playability as related to whether he deserves a tier raise are quite good. I see your meaning. There isn't enough intrinsically good advantages to be had to allow him to be raised up a tier. All arguable advantages come from what he could be paired with, they don't arise from the card in and of itself. I guess I just like playing with lower tier generals then. Heck, other decks I've made had Tromokratis, Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, King Macar, the Gold-Cursed, and Obzedat, Ghost Council as the generals. Sucker for the plucky underdog maybe?

Mogis also happens to be the magic card that first got me into EDH, and I was so excited to be playing a Minotaur God with a big axe. He turned out to get me killed two turns after I cast him lol. Good times.

Since everyone is debating on tier descriptions, I wrote some here. I made them shorter, as I felt that an archetype description section was needed. I included that as well. Here it is:

Tier Descriptions

Tier 1

These decks are the most powerful decks in the format. The combo decks can go off on turns 3-5, the stax decks get a lock on turns 3-4, and hybrid decks get a disruption engine by turn 2-4. They will commonly be seen at competitive tables, and players should know how to combat them. They are resilient, pack protection and backup plans, and take dedicated hate to truly counter. Never underestimate these decks, as they are the strongest in the format.

Tier 2

Less powerful than the tier 1 decks, but still quite strong, these can definitely hold their own against tier 1 decks. They are usually a turn slower than tier 1 decks, or they have consistency problems.

// Dang, when are we going to fix tier 2...

Tier 3

These decks are somewhat weak. They can't usually compete against tier 1 decks, but might do fine with tier 2 decks. They usually have "the Aggro Problem," or they are wildly inconsistent. Most of the "pubstomp" decks that dominate casual metas (Kaalia, Uril) go in here. They may have a bad reputation, but that doesnt' make them tier 1.

Tier 4

These decks are weak. They have trouble winning in competitive metas, but may do well in casual games. They need a very favorable meta and a very lucky hand to win against decks like Zur.

Tier 5

Janky generals that can't win often in competitive metas. Vanilla generals fit in here, as well as stuff like Gallowbraid. They usually can't do much.

Archetype Descriptions

Combo: Resilient, recurrable combos, usually with a backup plan, and that packs protection. These decks run cards that "combo" with each other to get a game-winning boardstate (Mimeoplasm), infinite tokens and draw (Prossh), or just downright win the game (Doomsday). Decks will pack lots of acceleration in order to power out the combo. Some tier 1 decks include Doomsday Zur and Prossh Food Chain. Sample decklists: moxnix's Storm angelforge's Prossh

Stax: Speedy lockdowns, usually with a combo finish or beatdown strategy, that packs redundancy and tutors to counter other gameplans. These decks will play cards like Static Orb and Stasis to slow down opponents, while having some way to break resource parity, whether by blinking permanents (Brago), or untapping lands (Derevi). They can easily lock down the board, and proceed to win with either beatdown or a combo finish. Sample decklists: Glix's Derevi cobblepott's Brago

Hybrid: Disruption, silver bullets, and hatebears make these decks powerful. They will usually pack a combo, but won't play it out as quickly, opting instead to disrupt other gameplans with cards like Cursed Totem and Phyrexian Revoker. They can be tuned to local metas, packing specific hate cards against powerful decks. These decks can win quickly or play the long game. Sample decklists: ShaperSavant's Yisan razzliox's Jarad

Control: Cheap counterspells, good disruption, and a powerful draw engine. This archetype is usually considered to be one of the weaker ones, as having enough counterspells to fight an entire table is tough. Each counterspell is card disadvantage (1:1/3), so this must be offset by a powerful draw engine in the command zone. Azami and Damia are two examples of decks that have enough sheer card draw to get the counterspells they need. Sample decklists: Epochalyptik's Damia ShaperSavant's Tasigur

Thank you for the descriptions, Leinahtan. I think you did a good job with explaining each tier. The examples are excellently presented. Would it be easier to describe tier 2 as "Can win with a certain strategy at a slightly slower pace than tier 1, but are also able to hold their own when subjected to hate"? Is that clear enough? I do not have any examples off the top of my head, but basically I'm thinking of a deck that might have a single strategy that can win around turns 5-7 (maybe 8) on average. If slowed down by hate, they can still hold their own. Albeit to a lesser extent than tier 1 guys who can just pick the ball up and continue to run the gauntlet no problem, but are still considered in the game because of the threat they represent.

Also, I know Lord of Tresserhorn is tier 5, and I totally agree with that, but I have a more casual deck with him that just takes control of people's creatures and permanents. It's a lot of fun and works surprisingly well because then I can sac people's things to the LoT. I found it really funny. Didn't mean to advertise the deck or make LoT move up a tier, just thought I'd share some minor laughs.

@ Leinahtan: We're fixing it now. Notice that many of the weaker Commanders have been cleared out. The list was shortened from 49 to 38. As of now, the only remaining questionable commanders are Titania, Zegana, Marchesa and Marath.

Since we are demoting generals with clear weaknesses from the competitive tiers, I am curious as to why the following generals have a place in tier 2:

Alesha, Who Smiles at Death

Grenzo, Dungeon Warden

Shattergang Brothers

Sedris, the Traitor King

@wagnerr2 Alesha, Who Smiles at Death is there b/c she does combos really well. Shattergang Brothers is there b/c he's in powerful colors and he's great at stax and all around control. Sedris, the Traitor King is there b/c you can just reanimate shit for 3 mana with haste, even if they only stay for a turn.

Alesha, Who Smiles at Death is an amazing stax commander and the second strongest commander in Mardu colors after Kaalia. She runs a ton of cheap, efficient hate bears like Aven Mindcensor and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben to slow down opponents alongside the usual slew of stax tools like Smokestack and Armageddon. She also lends herself quite well to combo, being able to effortlessly assemble a Twin-esq combo by casting Buried Alive targeting Kiki-Jiki, Village Bellringer, and Karmic Guide.

Grenzo, Dungeon Warden golfishes consistently by turn 5 or earlier with Doomsday and has relevant backup strategies.

Shattergang Brothers is questionable. They play a mean stax game though.

Sedris, the Traitor King is the best build-around Grixis commander. He has numerous easily assembled combos and is extremely strong as a midrange/control commander with reanimator finishers.

I am in favor of the new tier descriptions. Good work, Leinahtan.

As for Mogis, he's always struck me as a good piece of a 99 but a weak general. Rakdos is a pretty weak color combo, and he's got a punisher mechanic stapled onto him. Giving opponents a free sac outlet is sometimes bad too.

Good to know. Thank you for the explanations.

My friend says this list is outdated because Edric is banned is he right or wrong?

@TodaDyle TELL YOUR FRIEND TO GO Find the gatherer website or google that. Edric is banned in duel commander only b/c you can just run 65 1 drops and win REALLY easily. in multiplayer he is fine.

what a weird way to ask that question. Like, why not, "is this list outdated? I think Edric is banned"

And no, Edric isn't banned. Though he is banned as the commander of a duel commander deck

@ TodaDyle: This tier lists follows the multiplayer commander rules. Your friend was thinking of French Commander, an entirely different format. Over there, Edric is indeed banned. However, he is legal in multiplayer EDH.