Ok ok ok. It seems like something happened while I was sleeping... I just read through all of the stuff all of you guyz have written. There is stuff I like, there is stuff I don't. There is stuff I agree with, there is stuff I don't.

I will just start by quoting one of the rules (number 2 actually): Please guyz, no hate. I did not brought back this list for it to become a warzone. What I wanted was only to be involved into cEDH community.

Also, this is cEDH, nowhere near casual 20$ decks. I know some people might be insulted when said their decks are subpar or there would be better ways to build them, but that is a fact. I totally agree with what NarejED said up there. As another comparison, I would like to give the exemple of another deck: Sleazebag's Mikaeus, Extreme Sub $20 Budget EDH. Just look at it. Currently, 1519 upvotes (the most popular EDH deck here?), counting mine. I myself built the deck because I found it a good idea, and had some money to spend ;) But I think even the creator of it would agree: it is nowhere near optimized. Yet it is highly populoar. I think that is the best proof we can get that the upvote count or the popularity of a deck is not relevant for the tier placement.

Next, I would like to give my opinion on Yisan (as I am the one you updates the list...). He is crazy. I have been playing mono-green since a long time now, I think I passed all the available commanders and strategies. I moved from it sonce nothing was really suiting what I really wanted to play. You had big creatures, big mana, but consistency was a problem. My main commander in that time was the old Omnath. Then, I started trying to be more competitive. I moved on to a Sliver deck, running Sliver Overlord as the commander. What does it have to do with Yisan??? The ability. I know, sliver decks are fragile and not the best at all, but we must all agree that when the Overlord starts tutoring, well it goes off really quickly. Yisan's tutor ability is different, but does the same thing: it goes off really fast.

There are several ways, as stated above, to get Yisan into play turn 2 (and it also is possible to get it turn 1). This will often make it so that you have your commander in play before everyone else, when the game is still at casting mana rocks and ramp spells. You can start tutoring cards that will put you miles ahead from the other players. You can get so many protection and disruption with Yisan, it is so crazy. Yisan can be adapted to any meta: wrath protection, spot removal protection, MLD protection, stax protection... I mean, he can adapt to any strategy!

Also, as said before, green is the second best color in EDH. It has access to everything it needs to run smoothly all by itself. Also, Yisan covers some of green weaknesses, like to counterspells. What sucks more than having your big fatty counterspelled and not being able to get it on the battlefield??? Yisan's ability lets you get your creatures into play. Without the possibility for them to be counterspelled. Sure, cards like Trickbind exist, but seriously...

I could continue on and on, but I will just say that: I think Yisan is worth of tier 1 placement. I know it is strange, a mono-green commander in tier 1, but I personnally think it is strong enough. I know some people will disagree, and as I said many times before, this list is to reflect the opinion of the community.

So, after finishing this comment, I will move Yisan tier 1. But nothing is definitive: you guyz can still convince me that he is not worth the place. But it will be an hard task. And for you complaining about money involved in cEDH, Yisan probably is the cheapest deck to build. Look that up. Another upside for that little mono-green outsider.

Gotta say I agree with Yisan being a Tier 1 commander. I've played several competetive level EDH games against Yisan and it is always a threat. You have to stop it before the ball starts rolling, because once it starts there's not much you can do to stop it, and the ball starts rolling from turn 3 at the slowest (after one activation, you're not going to kill Yisan easily).

As for my Mikaeus deck, it is ridiculously far from optimization, but I would say it is as optimized as possible for the price!

Guys, I am not so sure about this whole Yisan thing. I think he fits the tier 2 description really well --left unchecked, he can easily win the game. But it takes some very simple hate cards (Containment Priest, Torpor Orb, Phyrexian Revoker, Linvala, Keeper of Silence) that are very accessible to tier 1 decks to shut Yisan down completely. Yisan is also completely outpaced (if only barely) by dedicated combo decks (like Storm, as mentioned).

That said, I believe Yisan is near the top of tier 2 -- versatile, resilient, fast, but ultimately, dies to Derevi Stax, dies to Humility, dies to selective hate cards, dies to pure combo -- not uncommon situations in cEDH

Kind of a small thing, but Yisan actually has a very favorable matchup against stax. His low dependence on mana after turn 2 makes him extremely resistant to most standard forms of resource denial. If he can get to 4 verse counters before Derevi manages to tutor out Aven Mindcensor or Linvala AND lock the board with mana denial effects (which is very easy for Yisan to do), he wins.

Yisan is primary a midrange commander. Midrange naturally has a favorable matuchup against stax/control, which in turn has a good matchup against combo. It's EDH's version of most formats' Control-Midrange-Aggro.

Thats totes truesies. I like him as Tier1, I'm just having a hard time accepting it.

I vote for moving Ruric Thar, the Unbowed to tier 2 in light of the recent cEDH tournament where Ruric Thar did alright.

@illumfolly lol, nope.

seriously, Ruric thar isn't very good, and a single tournament where he did "alright" is not enough to warrant moving him up.

the is that he paints a target on you, even if he does apply pressure, b/c everyone wants their spells. Not to mention that b/c he is forced to attack the aggro will provoke people and possibly force him to attack into death.

overall, much better commanders, but even not considering that he's still pretty meh.

The only problem that I see with Ruric is that he'll do amazing in a competitive meta (as seen) but not so well in a casual meta. Cards like Meltdown, Ground Seal, and Blood Moon are amazing against the decks that rely on shaky combos, but not so well on decks that like to durdle for the first few turns then cast dragons and angels. I believe I posted an anti-meta deck a while back that was rejected as we were basing the tiers off of individual decklists. Maybe times have changed, but we should put a disclaimer that this deck is specifically anti-meta.

My attempts to build a $400 Mayael the Anima deck, and lesser decks for Thraximundar, Purphoros, God of the Forge and Anafenza, the Foremost have all failed to win a MP pod. Naturally, I'm looking elsewhere, starting with this list. Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge sounds like it could be fun to build around, but one of the other players in my meta is building her, and I'm avoiding mirror matches. Now maybe a little discussion?

Pretext: I can't afford or build any Tier 1 decks, so I'm forced to look into T2 and beyond.

• Alesha, Who Smiles at Death: I play her as an aggro deck in tiny leaders, so I guess I can't imagine her as a Tier 2 commander with a stax archetype around her? I don't play stax, so maybe I'm too nubile, but don't you want stax affects to stay on board and not swing into their inevitable deaths?

• My other grixis option is Sedris, the Traitor King, who sounds fun since I developed a strong love for reanimator during the Theros block. However, you linked a $4,500 deck. Srsly? Now I gotta google Sedris decks for people not named Bill Gates.

• I want to be sold on Yisan, Wanderer Bard due to his mono-colored nature, but in multiplayer there's so much removal that there's almost no way I'd ever be tutoring for more than a Reclamation Sage. I may not be well versed in green cards thru the history of magic, but I feel like a mono-green deck would lack answers with 3+ other players building bigger boards than your own. Having never played him, it's improper to say he's not Tier 1, but as I'm typing, I just can't fathom it.

• Cheers.

I can say with certaintly that if you play with yisan you will almost always have the biggest board. I would encourage you to play some solitaire with a good yisan deck on tapped out before you dismiss him. He make himself immune to most spot removal by turn 3 every single game and green has tons of effectively costed answers to everything but creatures. The lack of creature removal is rarely an issue tbh since competitive edh is usually creature light and you will almost always have more creatures than anyone else on the board

Just a sidenote: I feel like 90% of the Yisan hate is due to ignorance. He looks like he would suck if you have never seen him in action and most people labor under the misconception that green "lacks answers" so people assume he must suck.

thewyzman: Some responses:

• Jeleva isn't usually built around; she's a placeholder (most off the time) for Grixis Storm.

• Alesha is also played as a placeholder about 60% of the time, it's just that the other Mardu generals are bad.

• The amazing thing about Yisan is that you can build him to your meta. For example, my meta is artifact/enchantment heavy, so I run a bunch of cards that might be dead in other groups: Natural State, Nature's Claim, Deglamer. You may want to run anti-removal cards: Sylvan Safekeeper, Oak Street Innkeeper, maybe Soul of New Phyrexia. Play a few games with placeholder cards, then get the anti-meta cards.

But, yeah, Tier 2 Ruric Thar... it'd be funny

@thewyzman: If you're looking for budget Sedris, I can recommend a few cost reducing replacements. The core of the deck (Splinter Twin combo and a strong foundation of wheels, tutors, and control elements) is relatively cheap. The main cost comes from cards like Imperial Seal: cards that aren't extremely important to the function. Just give a price to work with and I can easily whip a list up.

Also, if you want a budget competitive commander, Yisan is one of your best bets. Here is a link to a short write up of budget Yisan with several deck links.

So... wait.. okay, I get that he is anti-meta, but then you have Gaddock Teeg. Is the teegmonster not an anti-competitive card? He does pretty horrible in casual as well, but hoses a lot of competitive decks.

Teeg actually isn't all that bad in most casual games, because there's always someone trying to cast big dumb spells like Nissa's Rev or Evangelize and cheap spot removal is usually eschewed for splashy wraths or Insurrection effects. People can still cast spells (albeit painfully) through Thar, but with Teeg in play they just can't.

NarejED, more than anything I'm looking to make aSedris deck with the several hundred grixis cards I have, but if I had to throw down a budget, I'd say $200 (ignoring land base) and worthy of taking down a Narset and/or karador deck

I hate to stir up the mono-green honey pot again so soon after the Yisan discussion, but Seton, Krosan Protector to Tier 2? It's been the general consensus recently over on r/cEDH that he's currently the second strong mono green commander after Yisan, essentially playing 'druid storm' and comboing out most games by turn 4 at the latest.

Also, @thewyzman: Here's a budget version of Sedris I was able to whip up. Sedris Budget. The maybeboard consists of cards that were excluded for budget reasons, but are at the top of the list of cards to add if possible.

NarejED, you can build a "shaman storm" build out of Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro just as easily, should we be moving her up too?

CommanderTherory's list from about 9 months ago. It's not optimized, but it should give you an idea.

I am really interested in that Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro idea. I have playtested it a bit and it is far from optimized, but something funny might come out of it.

There do is a major difference between her and Seton, Krosan Protector though. Seton doest requires your creatures to have haste for them to tap for mana. Also, his CMC is one less... Even if it is more green intensive. The upside of Sachi is that she taps for two mana.

I also think there is a better druid support than shaman, but I am saying this without looking up first, so I might be wrong.

Can I ask why Braids, Conjurer Adept isn't Teir 4?

Braids tier 5!?! There are some incredibly crap commanders in tier 4 that are miles worse than Braids. Im no expert but most cEDH lists have an extremely low cc. How is she not anti-meta? I give you a free Sol Ring I give myself Mindslaver. There is also potential in her abilty to make it onesided enough to do something degenerate. I would imagine Leyline of Anticipation would be involved but I don't really know.

I understand that the random factor makes her not cutthroat competitive but I could see 4 possibly low 3.

Yeah, Braids should be bumped up. Tier 4 at the lowest. I believe moving her up was brought up before, but it got lost in the shuffle.

@Lilbrudder I've PLAYED Yisan dude.

now, my meta might be different from everyone else's, but it probably isn't THAT different.

It got destroyed. In the one game i was left alone I ended it on turn 5 with craterhoof + lots of meeples. In all the other games, however, he stayed out for 1 or 2 rounds tops. It didn't go anywhere. Everything got destroyed, and Aven Mindcensor was played. then torpor the next game. hushwing. etc. he's supremely vulnerable in the color that is pretty much the one with the least removal and prevention. He deserves his spot at a high tier 2, but I still feel like he should be out of tier 1.

As for braids, shes NOT tier 5! I've played her effectively with lots of beaters, and she won a few. high Tier 4.

@DERPLINGSUPREME Not to poke a bear, but I would chalk up an anecdotal experience like that to small sample size. There's only a small number of playable cards that can hate on Yisan's ability (two of them are in the worst color) and it seems you experienced them all. I'm sure every tier one general can go through a handful of scenarios like the ones you described.