i like Purphurose too, but as previously stated, he's too unreliable. He has no tutors, very limited draw options, he can only win through damage, and just scoops to hate cards and lifegain. If your commander loses straight up to an inability to remove hate, than that's a reasonably large indication of non-T1 playability, at least in my eyes. Also, comment reset finally worked!

Dang. A lot has been done here. I feel so behind now.

NarejED and Leinahtan, I saw that earlier (about a week ago I think) you were saying something about a google doc for an FAQ or explaining why certain commanders are in certain tiers? Has anyone made any progress on that? If not, I can get some of it started and can put a link on here. If it is already started, would it be permissible for me to do Sen Triplets? They are my favorite card in all of MtG.

Who else is psyched for the new Eternal Masters!?!? I am looking forward to getting a foil of the new Vampiric Tutor :)

Sadly I have nothing to contribute to the Purphorose discussion. I have him but have never really liked him.

that is true what you guys are saying but in fact the ratio of getting them removals and what you need is a pick out of a hundred unless you have search cards for creatures,removal spells,enchantments etc.but what i am saying in general here is that it would be hard to remove straight off or in a few turns before he does serious hurt to the opponents is that not true in that case with burn you really don't have a choice and cant stop them countering him at all as red does not control like blue and white can do, but if you deck is built up upon tokens and cards that can return to your hand and so on its a bonus red is for burn as you would all know that so we play red we don't need to worry about board control we deal damage straight to the player via other means cards and spells, you guys have raised some great points here about his advantages and disadvantageous about him being a commander but in my opinion he is still the best if played right like many other commanders

can we ban this guy? He's drunk or something

PurphorosGodoftheForge: Dude, please use some punctuation. Currently most of your words are just turning into one big ramble and it's super hard to follow the points that you're trying to make.

What I think the issue here is that you're setting up the scenario where YOU get a good opening hand with purphoros but everyone else has mediocre or lousy opening hands. In this scenario, of course you'll do well. But all somebody has to do is counter him once or twice and you effective take away any impact that he was going to make. And counterspells like Swan Song only cost one mana. That means that a player can still ramp and hold open a single blue and yet can still screw over your whole strategy.

As I said, with a good opening hand he can be quite potent, but on a level playing field he's at a disadvantage against your Zurs and Damias and whatnots.

I would also like to point out that white still has exile enchantment removal, which gets around his main form of protection. He isnt terrible, but his strategy is certainly easy to stop with most stax decks, and is overly reliant on the commander.If you look at the tier 1 decks, you will see that they all either tutor themselves a combo, are a durable combo peice, or enable one-sided stax effects. purpho does none of these

@PurphorosGodoftheForge Purphoros, God of the Forge is an okay commander, but he works out much better in decks such as Marath, Will of the Wild as opposed to being his own deck. Since red has only a limited number of continuous token producers and not many tutors, he ends up being inconsistent. And because you still have green in Marath, you're able to do Tooth and Nail entwined for Avenger of Zendikar and purph, usually causing you to win.

also, start using punctuation. It is incredibly hard to read any of what you're saying, and IMO, makes you look like an asshole.

as for power level against Zur, damia or even Yissan, I suggest you go on MTGO, go to competitive edh, and find out for yourself.

okay i think i will leave now i didnt mean to offend anyone or want people to ban me and sorry if i come across as a arse have a good one all sorry again

No one is saying you have to leave - just start using consistent punctuation. The way you are typing now is difficult to understand and makes you seem uneducated, which makes it hard for anyone to take you seriously. When you cannot present an argument in a clear way, your point won't get across and you will probably be ignored.

i am not good at grammar at all really mate sorry i do try my hardest to do it right

Think about it this way, if you pause in a sentence IRL or in your head while typing you usually need some type of punctuation, like this sentence has. Periods are for full stops and commas are to denote a pause as you go.

If you have something to say in addition but it doesn't add anything to what you've already written or is a new topic/subject/thought? Add a new paragraph. Like this sentence.

Just those two things should help, at least a little.

@Podkomorka I wouldn't classify stating their opinion reason to ban someone, and I'm quite sure they're not drunk.

@PurphorosGodoftheForge I don't believe you offended anyone with stating your opinion. I can't speak for the admins, but in my opinion you have brought a healthy discussion to this forum, and I certainly don't see a need to ban you. Articulation is definitely important, but I can still get the general idea of what you're trying to say. This is becoming a healthy discussion on a powerful commander. Again, I can't speak for thegigibeast and the other admins, but I can't see how you have offended anyone or caused trouble, so I see no reason to ban you.

But yes, grammar is important.

Dredge4life I agree. Grammar could use some work to be more understood but that's not really something we can change unless we have a sit-down and go over English 101 and, well, I have a 1 year old now so I don't have that kind of time.

Purph is fine as an aggro commander but have you guys ever thought about a stacks type of thing? I have no idea if it would work but the first thing I thought of with purph is resource denial via Blood Moon, Stranglehold, and the usual suite of artifact stax. Part of my reasoning is that for stax to be decent you have to have a way to feed the stax effects and if you're making tokens anyways.... Smokestack + Krenko, Mob Boss/Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker/Siege-Gang Commander seems fairly strong. (If you're running Kiki you may as well run Zealous Conscripts for the combo.)

Edit: Red is also one of the two colors with MLD. Get out Purph and Krenko (or another token producer) and then pop all lands, then just make dudes for a few turns.

Thoughts?

@ Ohthenoises

I think that Daretti, Scrap Savant is the go-to commander for mono-red Stax. His artifact recursion and draw power just make him better for the strategy than Purphoros, God of the Forge.

Interesting. You could use the rituals to power out stax or MLD cards after Purphorose was in play. My only problem is that it would still need a fairly strong hand to win consistently.

as was mentioned previously by Ohthenoisesi run those cards in my deck, when i upload the deck on here you will see what i mean via the cards and if you would like to give ideas or opinions with the deck and discuss it with advantages and disadvantages of how this deck plays if everyone is up for that

1x Burnished Hart1x Chancellor of the Forge1x Dualcaster Mage1x Emrakul's Hatcher1x Goblin Marshal1x Goblin Matron1x Goblin Rabblemaster1x Goblin Recruiter1x Grinning Ignus1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker1x Knollspine Dragon1x Krenko, Mob Boss1x Mogg War Marshal1x Molten Primordial1x Myr Battlesphere1x Norin the Wary1x Ogre Battledriver1x Palladium Myr1x Precursor Golem1x Siege-Gang Commander1x Solemn Simulacrum1x Steel Hellkite1x Zealous Conscripts

Land (36)

1x Ancient Tomb1x Kher Keep31x Mountain1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx1x Smoldering Crater1x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

Sorcery (16)

1x Blasphemous Act1x Descent of the Dragons1x Dragon Fodder1x Empty the Warrens1x Faithless Looting1x Goblin Offensive1x Goblin Rally1x Hordeling Outburst1x Mana Geyser1x Ruination1x Skittering Invasion1x Sudden Demise1x Tempt with Vengeance1x Tormenting Voice1x Twinflame1x Vandalblast

Instant (8)

1x Battle Hymn1x Comet Storm1x Grab the Reins1x Lightning Bolt1x Price of Progress1x Reiterate1x Reverberate1x Seething Song

Commander Purphoros, God of the Forge

Artifact (9)

1x Dreamstone Hedron1x Everflowing Chalice1x Jester's Cap1x Mind Stone1x Ruby Medallion1x Skullclamp1x Snake Basket1x Sol Ring1x Worn Powerstone

Enchantment (6)

1x Blood Moon1x Goblin Bombardment1x Impact Tremors1x Price of Glory1x Stranglehold1x Tooth and Claw

Planeswalker (1)

1x Karn Liberated

@SaberTech yeah I know that daretti is better in that regard but it's worth noting that daretti doesn't get along all that well with mld and stax enchantments afaik. (Can't return Blood Moon.) Purphoros at least can cast a Boom/Bust with a token producer (hell, even Goblin Rabblemaster would do it, or Goblin Assault. Lol) and then just win from there.

Can we get a Riku of two reflections list?

Doesn't daretti run myr battlesphere combo as well. Im sure a daretti deck could still bust and win through that, and metalworker shenanigans. and he can still regrab furnace so he can have a red source. And with mw and krark-clan daretti can power through his own manager denial.

No one is going to get banned, this is an healthy discussion and I like it this way ;p

I will definitely have to try your version of Purphoros, because it seems to be far stronger than a straight up tokens/aggro deck. Maybe is it the strongest shell possible for Purphoros!

I'm not saying that purph is better, just that they have their merits.

Also, the purph list looks like a good start but I feel like it's missing a few things that would push it over the top.

I propose that Sidisi, Brood Tyrant be promoted to tier 1

A while back when we made her tier 2 the general consensus was that while she is a strict downgrade to The Mimeoplasm or Damia, Sage of Stone, BUG is such a powerful color scheme that her limited utility is enough to make her tier 2. After tinkering with this list off and on for more than a year I believe Sidisi is different from, but not clearly weaker than either Mimeo or Damia. One thing I will say is that she is incredibly difficult to optimize.

I am getting very close to a fully "solved version" of Sidisi that can win as early as turn 2 (with consistent turn 3 to 5 victories), but is also strong in the mid to late game. I think the deck can get even faster if I went all in on combo's but that might weaken the deck overall and make it more of a glass cannon approach.

What advantage does Sidisi have over Mimeo or Damia?

She is cheaper and gives immediate value. Anything that gets milled is fine because it is either a creature, which I can reanimate or a spell to get used later with Yawgmoth's Will or Regrowth effects. Sidisi also has synergy with flicker, dredge, and top deck manipulation. As for combos she has the 4 horseman combo, hermit druid combo, along with a bevy of Necrotic Ooze shenanighans to choose from. While I dont use any of these, a strong deck can be made with them. I see her primary advantage is her ability to more consistently abuse the classic Deadeye Navigator + Palinchron combo (which has a ton of redundant parts), since she can mill your library until she uncovers a Dread Return, which gets anything you need to win. While Tasigur can also "2 card combo" with Deadeye Navigator + Palinchron , his ability is really overcosted and crappy in general, and he is apparently still Tier 1.

I am posting this deck to simply put my assertions to critical review. I don't personally pilot this list or plan on doing so, the deck is a thought experiment. Voidia's version is certainly strong, but the Hermit Druid/Laboratory Maniac is an incredidibly risky combo and that list runs way too few creatures to maximize Sidisi's power except as a combo piece. There is more to my argument but I will allow the dissenters to make their case first.

The Miracle Maker (turn 2 win)

I have a more casual sidisi (by design due to playgroup) and I'd tend to agree. She's just .... Too easy sometimes.

A personal favorite of mine is the fact that we can run Ezuri to get counters from sidisi milling (and making sidisi capable of killing via commander damage) and also we can run Meren to just windmill slam and EoT reanimate an instant speed combo piece using the XP that Ezuri generated.

I've been building a Purphoros, God of the Forge deck, and it's tough because there are so many cards that are fantastic for the deck if you build it a certain way, and you can't use all of them. Young Pyromancer and Guttersnipe want a lot of instants and sorceries, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Conjurer's Closet want lots of etb abilities, Illusionist's Bracers and Rings of Brighthearth want lots of activated abilities, Tooth and Claw and Hellion Eruption want lots of die/ltb abilities, Krenko, Mob Boss and Goblin Warrens want lots of goblins, Prototype Portal and Myr Incubator want lots of artifacts, and the list goes on and on! Recursion tends to be an important part of EDH/Commander, so I'm leaning towards the spellslinger type to take advantage of cards like Mizzix's Mastery and Charmbreaker Devils, but my question is this:

What is the biggest thing stopping Purphoros, God of the Forge from reaching tier 1 status?