Coming back from a vacation, going to work on a fix for the description of this list. I'd put the spider in upper tier 4 or lower tier 3.

Aaaaand the discussion was once again derailed into semantics about judging criteria. Wonderful. Thanks guys!

Because it's still an issue. Believe it or not, issues don't go away if you just ignore them.

uummm.....

I dont even know why we're thinking on running non-token spiders in Ishkanah, Grafwidow

I mean, black tutors, Conjurer's Closet, Illusionist's Bracers Strionic Resonator, Cloudstone Curio, Phyrexian Altar, Ashnod's Altar, and the rest of the deck filled to the brim with graveyard interaction, value , and spot removal?

Two questions/pieces of my personal advice:

• Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord: Why is he Tier 2? Although I do have a soft spot for him, I don't understand why he is better then Sliver Overlord and Kruphix, God of Horizons.

• Kozilek, the Great Distortion: My friend has a Kozilek commander deck and it works wonders even in multiplayer. That player can normally cast Kozilek turn 3-4 with an empty hand, immediately restocking and proceeding to bulldoze whoever did not set up their board to perfection. I do concede he is definitly not Tier 1-2 quality, but I think that he should at least be Tier 3.

@ Wee_Dragonaut: Jarad combos with Phyrexian Devourer (and occasionally Lord of Extinction) to kill the entire table on the spot. GB's best default combo is Nooze using Phyrexian Devourer and Triskelion. Jarad combos with one of the cards that would already be in the list regardless, making him an excellent backup win con. He's not as strong as Meren, but he's solidly Tier 2. Comparable to Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind in terms of ability.

Wee_Dragonaut, Can you post your friend's Kozilek list?

The Great Distortion is relatively new, and was ranked in T4 because he's less threatening early game than Butcher of Truth w/o annihilator, but if you can show us a good strategy with him, he could be moved up. How exactly does the "bulldozing" go down? Because a 12/12 with menace doesn't seem all that threatening to me.

You mean, isn't all that menacing, right? :P

how are Sliver Overlord in the same tier as Adun Oakenshield? i think Sliver Overlord is strong enough to be tier 2, and Adun Oakenshield could be tier 4. i may be wrong about that, but i definitely think that they should be in different tiers.

uuh guys, Ijust realized ulamog isnt in tier 3.

now, this is clearly biased but I get him out on turn 3 almost every game I play with him, and he becomes an issue considering I run all 5 swords and Swiftfoot Boots / Lightning Greaves.

its very fast, very resilient, and is able to recast ula basically whenever i want.

@MasterXandar DUDE NO. Adun is fucking amazing! he's instant speed recursion in colors with lots of removal, naturalize effects, and creatures who have value upon death / entrance.

DERPLINGSUPREME that is a bold statement. A turn three ulamog, how is that consistently possible? I'm guessing artifacts, and if that's the case your meta most not run a lot of early game artifact removal.

@Aggro-Blaster of course its artifacts. and no, we tend not to have much artifact removal in the first few turns, and usually don't waste it on rocks. my meta actually doesn't run much of any naturalize effects save for a few decks and much prefers active synergy.

but still, I'm talking about elevating Ulamog (and kozi) to tier 3. tier 3 doesn't really do early game stuff like tier 1 would anyhow.

If your opponents aren't dealing with your early mana rocks, which allows a T3 ulamog every game, then that is a meta problem. When you're ramping up to something like that, it's generally a pretty good idea to cripple mana production.

sonnet666, I'll go ask him!

BTW, I misused the word "bulldozing." His Kozilek deck is very controlly, which utilizes Kozilek's counter ability waaay too much. He uses many different CMC cards in his deck, especially cards with the same CMC as many prominent commanders, to annoy the crap out of everyone. His deck also abuses graveyard recursion effects to make sure that we are semi-perpetually locked down. Some of the deck's main win cons are Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, Karn Liberated, and Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. And if all else fails, Kozilek himself can still kill people, if slowly.

Oh yeah, one more thing: Combo decks are positively shunned in our playgroup, so that may help out his deck a lot.

Yeah I think Null Rod pretty much takes care of a colorless deck.

Wee_Dragonaut I do not mean to be rude here, but your group experience is probably not going to help make a case for any commander if combo is banned.

Hello, everyone. To the folks in America, hope y'all had a good Fourth of July. I have been away for a bit. How have things been over here? Any cool/interesting updates? Have you guys seen the new Eldritch Evolution? Has anyone done any intitial thinking on some of the upcoming legendaries?

@trinitok

So any deck that has self mill and likes lands is a bit more broken. I wonder if this makes titania/gitrog/etc any better?

"Stunning Regrowth"
3G
Sorcery
Return all land cards from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped.

as someone who plays gitrog I'd try it out but it doesn't seem like it'd make the list. Unless it was a value list, of course.\

Titania, on the other hand, would almost certainly want to run this b/c of all the sac effects.

This + Zuran Orb is just......

Float all my mana, sac all the lands to Zuran Orb, get that many 5/3s or draw that many cards, play this using the 4 floating, everything back in play.

This would also work with Valakut in a stupid way. Sac everything to Scapeshift, play this.

yeah, it looks amazing in titania and a new kind of scapeshift COULD be birthed out of this but I can't think of any land sac outlets in modern that are worth it.

It's going to be amazing in Gitrog. Between Rain of Filth, Squandered Resources, Lake of the Dead, Gitrog himself, and the other multitude of cards that get lands into your graveyard, there's a ton of things that both fuel and are fueled by Stunning Regrowth. Both it and the new Wild Mongrel functional reprint are going straight in. Angry Borbor and Titania will probably want it as well.