We can't tell you which decks are fun man, we can only tell you which are the best. Just take your time and read them and get inspired. Best :)

we are still missing a jhoira list.

How do you know these are the optimized lists? Is math behind optimazing too obvious to share? It would be nice to make it public information, so others could check authors didn't misdifferentiate anything.

Because the chosen cards are the best for the needs of the deck. Some slots are flexible, but others are not due to those being the best for the job.

literally built with the explicit purpose of being the most efficient and streamlined lists possible, which is the definition of optimization.

There is a hell of a lot that goes into an optimized list. With that being said here are a few important elements.

The most important factor is mana sources. In a multucolor deck you need to include all the possible fetch and dual lands. There are also essential mana rocks, rituals, and/or mana dorks depending on your colors and archetype. Based on what I have seen most optimized decks utilize between 45 and 50 total mana sources and 28-34 lands.

Next all optimized decklists run the best tutors available to their color scheme. While some decks use very narrow tutors, all must include staples like Demonic Tutor and Mystical Tutor to be considered optimized.

For removal, all optimized decks utilize a suite of the most mana efficient and powerful removal available to thier color scheme/ general. The same goes for card advantage engines. Most optimized lists share a large proportion of the same generic goodstuff cards (i.e Mana Crypt) and then a smaller number of cards specific to the general or strategy (i.e Food Chain). Optimized decklists also have the best avaialble win conditions. Good win conditions are compact easy to assemble and mana efficient to limit dead cards.

Those things will just get you started. You can have a deck full of broken cards but be nowhere close to optimized. Each general has a different formula for optimization. One must tinker and test the deck in many different situations until the maximum number of synergistic effects between your pile of broken cards is found. Even then you will find better options down the road. It can literally take years to learn enough about magic to find a perfect balance between all the different factors that go into deck building.

i feel like that was more than what needed to be said

Maybe so , but some people prefer things spelled out

That doesn't really tell anything. Yes they try to make the most efficient deck possible for given commander, but how do we know they succeed? Optimized list requires correct amount of cantrips, wincons, lock pieces, mana sources, tutorials, protection and answers and each one of them needs to be the best for the deck. How do we know their numbers are correct? With math behind numbers being unknown, we can't check it ourselves, did they make mistake or not.

So basically you answered your own question, which is why I am confused why you asked in the first place. It is an unknowable answer. We can only base it on results against other deck and in goldfishing: Out of 100 games what is this combo decks average turn win. How quickly on average does this stax deck lock the board out of their mana/card draw? etc...

I just mean that shouldn't these be called attempts to make optimized list instead of optimized list until it's proven optimized?

They are proven. You can tell the competence of a deck without playing it dood. These lists are optimized without regard for local meta. The are built to function at the high level they can in almost all circumstances and only fold to dedicated hate

Where are the proofs? Being optimized list for given commander means, there's no legal list for that commander which performs better than the optimized list. There is probably many similar, but different lists which perform well in high level play, but it doesn't make them all optimal.

"Where are the proofs" troll. Ignoring

The strategies and specific cards have been shown to be effective across an extremely large sample size. If you want to be technical (which it is obvious you are) nothing can ever be proven, it only can be disproven...So while you are correct in a strictly technical sense you are focusing on 10% of truth at the expense of the other 90%. Scientists accept that truth is never fully knowable and couch findings in terms of assumptions they make. So yes it is our best attempt at optimized, there may be a better strategy noone has ever done before for a general like Karador. That is why we play the game. Do you wish for GiGi to put a disclamer on this list saying we really don't know anything?

little did you know colgate has a 0.5 list for Iname as One

you stepped into a very high level place that doesn't like ignorance

i wish i was high level. . . anyway, can we get someone to finish out the tier 2 lists? it would be nice to have those up before conspiracy.

For the tier 2 lists, Gaddock Teeg seems like he will be fairly difficult to fully optimise. I say this because most builds for him seem to be hate bear strategies which should, in my opinion, be tuned to your meta. For his list I could see a perfect 90 or so cards but the remainder of open slots should be interchangeable with the decks you are expecting to appear at the table.

Opinions?

We also need Melek list

galvanoth x1grixis storm stuff - tendrilsgeneric in color lands.it cant be that hard to try. . . just another high tide storm deck right?

gaddock should have hatebears for the tier 1 and 2 lists we have here, with it stated that hatebears is a strategy that is meta dependent, and the only thing that isnt interchangeable are the one-sided tax effects

so im in the same position as Hotcake. My idea of fun is making my opponents cry while I kill them. They would most likely be crying because all of their lands, creatures, hand, everything is gone and dead. so, if anyone knows a tie one deck like that, that would be awesome.

deretti and teferi stax can obliterate board states, and if unchecked will fully lock the board. try these out and see how much you like em

Prime Speaker Zegana has a broken link in teir 2