Noctem - (Recycled comment from a while ago) I run Geist casually, and I say that it is at BEST tier 4, and that's stretching it. He is nowhere near tier 2. He is basically a 6/2 with hexproof. You need to have a critical mass of auras and equipment to make him good, which dilutes the deck of answers to opponents' threats. I view him as a worse Bruna, Light of Alabaster, as she is capable of just one-shotting people, and all you need is ramp and mill. Geist is way too slow to make powerful, as you cannot cheat in the buff effects. Saying that he is blue bears little to no weight without black (combo-wise). He does not draw cards; he does not affect the board/stack/graveyard; and his 'best' win condition is the worst possible one: combat damage. UW is best as a stax build around Propaganda and other (s)tax effects, or simply voltron Bruna.

Here is my (admittedly casual) list. If you would like more details on why he is less powerful in cEDH than 60 card formats, feel free to ask.

joecool1299 - If you read the description, there are explanations of Tiers and whatnot that will basically answer most of your questions. Most of the commanders you listed are a lot slower than you expect when put in a competitive setting, so their Tiers suffer as a result. That and consistency. In cEDH, you often need to go infinite (or otherwise very large) in order to win. Or lock your opponents out of the game.

"memnarch is . . . at least on par with daretti." those are fighting words, i'm not supposed to comment on this board about daretti, and that greatly offends me. geist of saint traft is completely overshadowed by bruna for enchant-tron, and daxos for being a cheap azorius commander, i thought we already adressed that. anyway, when are you going to put up that other guys actually good titania list?

Well, you polymorph the angel tokens into big creatures or utility creatures. It works pretty well I guess. This was the idea that I built my first ever deck around -- using Talrand, Sky Summoner and the Drake Tokens to drop a fat funky fresh Tidespout Tyrant or Deadeye Navigator for the win. Use the already immense counterspell supply for backup.

with talrand you can at least get multiple tokens in a turn. with geist you get one every full turn cycle. also polymorphing isn't really that good of an effect (except for cwarp, which can technically pmorph)

Thanks for the explanation gents! One of the reasons why I ask is because I was reviewing various commanders on MTGtop8.com (not advertising the site) and he seemed to be pretty consistent about either coming in first or at least making top 8. An example build I was considering:

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13192&f=EDH

Designed for 1v1 and duel commander legal from what I understand. If you look here:

http://mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=247&meta=121&f=EDH

You can see that in most events documented by the site, the commander placed very well. Is there something I don't get? I agree that he's not favored in multiplayer. I'm building another commander deck for that.

In 1v1 giest's abilities are very relevant he just scales horribly to multiplayer. Zurgo Bellstriker is also very good in 1v1 but horrible in multiplayer. This is a multiplayer list and aggro is terrible against 3 opponents. Stax and combo are the dominant strategies simply because they can hit multiple opponents at once.

Oh I see, I didn't understand that this list was meant to be focused solely for multiplayer. Even though now that I actually pay attention, it's in the name '.

That's ok though, I need to build a multiplayer deck as well. I'm looking at Tasigur for that since I have the tasipurr mat :p

I thought you polymorph the tokens too but that's not the case. You polymorph GoST himself, that's why hexproof is desirable. He's also cheap to cast so it's easy to recast if something goes wrong. And if they deal with the kozilek you just reshuffle.

+1 from me for pure amount of work alone. This is a very comprehensive list that took a long, long time to put together so well done.

That being said, I've got to add my two cents, right? I play with a pretty darn competitive group and we each have 6-7 commanders ready so I have some decent knowledge of most of the top ones. That being said, black Mikaeus, green Omnath, Narset, Arcum and Daretti should all be moved up a tier. Whenever these are on the table in our playgroup, it becomes a 3 on 1 game. For instance, Daretti won turn 2 a while back. I would almost say Nekusar as well, though him giving combo pieces to other decks does hurt him. If you keep him three for this reason then Selvala should be there too. Teferi should be tier 2 at best. I also feel like Jeleva should be knocked way down. The decklist you have linked is quite impressive and I've seen it before, but it has literally nothing to do with the commander.

Again, great job with the list!

Jeleva is a placeholder for grixis storm, no other commander is more well suited to pilot it. Green omnom is just kruphix without blue. Narset was moved down because of her heavy casting cost, sharuum got hit by it too I believe, new Mulligans hurt. Daretti is tefwalker, so yeah, enough said. Same for arcum. Mikaeus is a 6 drop, who is way better in the 99, adding staying power and his own combos, but I was surprised to see him in 3 instead of 2. Nekusar literally just makes me win faster, I usually kill that player after i draw 7 and take 14. This is also only my opinion

Well, having a Nekusar deck myself when I play that deck it's not as simple as you only draw 7 and take 14, when I play it it's you pitch 7, take 28, draw 7, take 14 for a total of 42 in one shot.

I rely more on Liliana's Caress and Megrim to kill you but Underworld Dreams and Fate Unraveler are in the deck for sure.

I also run a high density of counterspells with Nek with the mindset that if I'm giving you cards I really shouldn't let you actually cast them. I also run Stranglehold because why not.

This way my wheels are actually more disruptive than helpful because they are gassing my hand too.

@Hotcake_Gotsyrup: Since this list is called EDH Generals by tier, not EDH Decklists by tier, I think it defeats the purpose to hold place for Grixis storm as strong as it is (and it really doesn't matter a hill of beans who pilots it because they are never cast...you just want those colors).

Green Omnath is more than just Kruphix given that he holds colored mana and costs two less (BIG difference).

If he's putting up other 6-mana commanders in tier 1 than Narset and Mikaeus should definitely be there.

Not sure what your comment was for Daretti/Arcum.

Like Ohthenoises mentioned, if played right, Nekusar isn't solely giving you combo pieces without disrupting what you have already whilst keeping some counterspells around just in case. My point though was there is no way Selvala should be above him.

I'm not saying Nek should be higher than jeleva, just that a proper Nek isn't as simple as draw 7 take 7, often I can do one turn of setup and then outright kill the table on the next turn (or with enough mana)

Omnath is good (I use him) but he is borderline tier 2/3 at best. He is outclassed by a couple other mono green commanders.

Sevelia is elfball combo with white. She can consistently win by turn 4-5 and does great things with stax pieces.

Arcum and Narset are linear, dependent on thier commander, and a bit too slow for tier 1. There are a couple commanders in tier 2 that are faster and harder to shut down than either Arcum or Narset.

Mikaues is nowhere close to tier 1

I've been looking at the Jeleva deck lately. I don't agree that because you don't always cast your commander, a deck shouldn't be in this list or considered tier 1. The truth is that many decks can still win without casting their commander. Jeleva is a single piece of the puzzle which makes up the grixis storm archtype. Sometimes, you don't need it. Sometimes you really don't need it. However, every so often you do need her and when you need her she's simply the best option you can have. That's simply how the deck works.

hosshughes my argument for daretti and arcum is that they simply aren't teferi walker. with green omnath my point was that he is in his tier for a reason, he is worse than kruphix, simply for the lack of blue. selvala is a stax general in disguise who is waiting to combo out iirc. about the 6 mana thing, tasigur and karador both have cost reduction and access to green, teferi walker is a monster who can push through stax easily, and proshh is simply a combo piece in the command zone, who also has evasion, and fuels token and sac strategies, who also has access to green. also notice that most tier 1 and 2 commanders are multi colored. this gives a good card pool and access to more "goodstuff". this better explains mik. as for nek vs selvala, 1 card > 7 in terms of the odds of getting instant speed removal. (and again, this is all my not so professional opinion)

Noctem I think the thing that you're missing is that this list represents typical builds in competitive circles. All competitive Grixis decks use Jeleva because she actually does have synergy with the deck as a way to kickstart it if need be.

No other Grixis General can do that, that's why she's the placeholder until something better is printed.

@Lilbrudder: I don't disagree about Omnath, but I think he should be bumped up a tier from 3 to 2. Even with my unoptimized list (I don't have the budget to make it really shine), it shows it's worth against all but the top commanders. I'll also take your word on Selvala as I haven't played it or played against it. I do disagree on Arcum and Narset, but hey that's what differences of opinion are all about right? :) I also mistyped in my 2nd comment. I don't think Mikaeus is a tier 1, but I do think he should be moved to tier 2 like I mentioned in my 1st comment.

@Noctem: But exactly how often are you actually going to cast her? I think 10% of games might be an overestimate. Yes, Jeleva is the best commander suited for it, but if you threw any other Grixis commander in there it wouldn't change 90% of the games. Again, it's a commander list not a deck list. Her abilities as a commander are far inferior to any of the other tier 1 or even tier 2 commanders...she just happens to be the marginally better choice to lead an OP deck (not be an OP commander). See what I'm getting at?

I didn't miss that.. that's what I'm saying! hosshughes has said twice now that he doesn't believe the deck belongs in tier 1 and that the fact the commander doesn't get cast often is grounds for it not to be in this list at all. To be clear here's what he posted previously:

"I also feel like Jeleva should be knocked way down. The decklist you have linked is quite impressive and I've seen it before, but it has literally nothing to do with the commander."

and

"Since this list is called EDH Generals by tier, not EDH Decklists by tier, I think it defeats the purpose to hold place for Grixis storm as strong as it is (and it really doesn't matter a hill of beans who pilots it because they are never cast...you just want those colors)."

I don't agree with either of these statements.

@Hotcake_Gotsyrup: I think Kruphix is certainly better 1v1 than Omnath but in multiplayer where there's other players to police, that blue stuff becomes less effective (and I'm a Dimir player at heart). That's why I think Omnath gets a bump.

Agree to disagree on the Teferi vs. Arcum thing.

Like I said to Lilbrudder, I don't have experience with or against Selvala so I'll take your word for it (though maybe I need to look into a build like that)

Also, I'm not advocating Mikaeus as a tier 1. I realize that my 2nd comment says that but I meant to say Narset and Mikaeus should each be bumped up a spot...Narset to 1 and Mikaeus to 2 like I said in my 1st comment. If you look at a list like Sleazebag has, a $20 build can go off on 5 or 6. Imagine how you can upgrade.

That said, I'm no pro either, just enjoying the friendly discussion :)

I mean, you can argue semantics on Jeleva all you want. It doesn't change the fact that Jeleva Storm lists consistently do phenomenally well in competitive EDH pods. It's easily one of the top five strongest decks in the format currently. And as long as Jeleva remains the best commander for helming said deck, she will remain dominant.

i use that mikeaus list. good stuff. but even fully optimized i dont think he could go blow for blow with most of the commanders in t2. i wasn't including blue for just counters specifically, but for Rewind, High Tide, Murkfiend Liege, Reset and Turnabout, in addition to more draw and mystical tutor to find most of the cards i mentioned.

On polymorphing -- k I get it now. Would probably want to use Proteus Staff on the tokens, but not the Instant that can't easily be recovered.

Sorry, accidentally suggested proteus staff -- oops