Here's an idea: go ask WOTC :) We have no input other than the rules we have already quoted which directly contradict what you're claiming.

Oracle text, unlike errata text, does not change the functionality of the card. It does not encompass errata as you claim. These are different things. You're wrong again.

709.2. In every zone other than the battlefield, and also on the battlefield before the permanent flips, a flip card has only the normal characteristics of the card. Once a permanent is flipped, its normal name, text box, type line, power, and toughness don't apply and the alternative versions of those characteristics apply instead.

Example: Akki Lavarunner is a nonlegendary creature that flips into a legendary creature named Tok-Tok, Volcano Born. An effect that says "search your library for a legendary card" can't find this flip card. An effect that says "legendary creatures get +2/+2" doesn't affect Akki Lavarunner, but it does affect Tok-Tok.

If it's not a legendary creature outside of the battlefield (IE in the commander zone), it can't be your commander. Very simple.

But the thing is? Using Akki as an example, the card ISN'T named Tok Tok. It's named Akki, the oracle text is only for the card named Tok Tok.

I was respectful in the beginning, your first words to me were "You CLEARLY don't seem to understand that what is printed on a card is ignored when the gatherer database is different."

That is an ignorant and insulting statement.

In short, I was respectful till I was disrespected.

This is all I'm gonna say on this.

Moving on, has anyone seen a possibly optimized Marchessa deck? The more I look at her the more I feel like she would make an excellent competitive commander for some type of stax control. She's in some of the best colors to play some stax effects and her abilities do a lot to ignore them.

Monarch specifically, if something is making you lose cards from your hand on upkeep or during your turn you can draw at EoT and ignore that.

Tokens block well and allow you to keep your monarch as well.

Instant speed removal is great too. Crackling doom is also kind of funny.

There is a deck on tappedout actually that I was ogling:

A Queen Needs No Crown

Looks promising. It's a pillow fort type build.

Eh, not a fan, rune of protection is bad, even then, if that effect was needed circle of protection is better since it doesn't require W, also, Gift of Estates over Land Tax?

I'd probably build that VERY differently.

That's fair. I do like Land Tax though because it allows you to get basics other than just plains but that's a nitpick perhaps.

@ Noctem - The oracle text DOES encompass errata.

Ohthenoises. No matter how you search it on gatherer or which half you search the gatherer will display the oracle text the same. If that's because there's only one page (which happens to display the oracle text as the card simply being Tok-Tok and casting then that's great there are no discrepancies.

Tl;dr: "technically this search site return queries weird, so rulings are wrong" ;)

Ohthenoises, I am happy with the new possible commanders we got out of the new conspiracy set though. I hosted an 8 player draft on the friday the set was released and someone opened a FOIL Leovold, Emissary of Trest to everyone's surprise. Totally ninja'ed it ;)

I've tried using Oath of Lieges in Zedruu a few times but I always find myself wishing I had Land Tax. I also deeply regret giving somebody a land last saturday so that I could draw into a baord wipe. I whiffed and then got trampled by a now gigantic Avenger of Zendikar.

I am starting to wonder if Zedruu deserves his T3 status. At the least I think he's better when you don't build around him as his abilities haven't aged well. is a lot of mana to pay these days.

k you're trolling. I understand now.

whatever gets us by all of this.

For real though Zedruu was a lot better in 2011 than he is now. WotC has stopped printing very many things that affect everybody or that won't also shoot you in the foot I should say. Zedruu used to be a pretty good Stax commander but Tefarri owns him now as far as lockdown goes.

Just going to comment, after having seen this debate in the feed, that there's a common sense component to interpreting the rules.

You can argue all you want that Oracle text is absolute, but an obvious oversight in the management of the database you're referencing should not reasonably be interpreted as a binding ruling that one half of a card is to be ignored without explicit justification.

I'd encourage you to get confirmation from any authority within WOTC that this particular Gatherer page's content is intentional and not erroneous.

• Zedruu doesn't deserve her spot

• Steel golem still exists

• what is actually going on. The only card she has lost is that stupid enchantment that hard locked not white players. And it still soft locks.

I'm telling you kengiczar is only interested in trolling. Every single thing he has said so far was posted to provoke a reaction and to then relish off that reaction. This is pure troll.

These cards are not commanders for the same reason Ormendahl, Profane Prince  ^Flip and Withengar Unbound  ^Flip are not legal commanders: the side that says "legendary creature" functionally doesn't exist anywhere until the condition to flip it has been met. Unless the card enters the battlefield with "legendary creature" on the type line, it cannot be used as a commander (exceptions for the C14 walkers). if it could, I would have used Withengar as my demon commander since his card was legal. The card that exists in every zone but the battlefield is called Akki Lavarunner and is just a regular creature, ergo it cannot be used as a general.

My god can you imagine a cleric tribal using ormendal? Haha

Noctem, kengiczar - But it's so fun to engage a troll :)

For the first comment, I just answered it as I normally would. Then, it was fun getting the perspective of someone who thought about Magic differently than me. Then, I made a comment that determined whether we were dealing with a troll. Then, I enjoyed watching/interacting with the troll ('counter-trolling').

@merrowMania could you walk me through this process of finding out a troll? I think it would serve me well to learn.

Dredge4life -
Someone makes a comment that strikes you as odd.
Give the benefit of doubt and answer honestly.
They completely disregard what you say and say something equally, or given the new context, now even more odd.
(I personally try again, just in case what I said led to a misunderstanding, since this is all written communication etc.)
Then, I make a statement along the lines of "agree to disagree," in the most polite way possible (If you look further up the page, you should be able to identify it for the previous trolling).
Any rude, annoying, stupid, or otherwise provoking comment after this point shows that the person is not willing to listen to the arguments of others, and thus is trolling/being an asshole (I view these as different, but some people don't).

I happen to be extremely patient and understanding (and HUMBLE!!!!), so once I ascertain for myself that a discussion holds no academic merit, I go super casual and enjoy the discussion for what it truly was: poking fun at people who take life too seriously (this is the assumption that I am dealing with a troll, not an asshole). If I find myself face-to-cheek with an asshole, I mock, block, or whip out my cock (then proceed to feel super smug for fucking over an asshole).

Something to always remember is that ALL forms of communication are flawed, so one's message is never fully received unless there is an extensive conversation.

Thank you. I feel enlightened.

Wow not only are a lot of people here savage but also belligerent. Can we please calm down here?

nah i think we are nice enough

A person was told they were wrong, they fought back in a rude manner using incomplete information, they were then corrected and given proof, they continued to fight citing the same incomplete information.

To some degree it was earned, at the same time this is all a discussion for people's walls, not this thread.

@all if you have an issue with a user or think that they are trolling please take it to your walls, don't clutter what it supposed to be a professional list. It just makes everything look bad. (Yes this includes me, at some point I should have stopped but I got caught up. Time has given me clarity in that.)