Strictly a curiosity question: How has Sadistic Sacrament worked for you? I have always liked the idea of the card, but am unsure if it actually ever works the way it should. For me, I have troubles saying "Oh yes, Sadistic Sacrament should be in as opposed to Damnation, Mind Grind, Sphinx's Tutelage, etc."

Your Thoughts?

LordMondegreen I have a nice foil Guiltfeeder ready to be added, just testing a couple things before making more changes. :)

gobucks I haven't drawn Sadistic Sacrament that often, but the hope is to get it when I run across an opponent running problems like combos I can't interact wit, or Kozilek, Butcher of Truth or Elixir of Immortality which counteract my milling. I did have the opportunity to use it, kicked, against a Liliana, Heretical Healer deck to great effect.

ever tried Helm of Obedience with Leyline of the Void? +1!

Yes, but that combo kinda bores me, and both cards individually don't do much what this deck wants to achieve. Leyline of the Void nonbos with all my cards and spells that interact with the graveyard.

Thanks for the suggestion and +1 though.

Opinions wanted:

I am considering cutting Silent-Blade Oni to make room for something else. Cards that are in contention are as follows:

Isleback Spawn
Diluvian Primordial
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

Which one should I choose? Is there something else I should also consider? Please weigh-in.

I'd say no on Isleback Spawn, it's amazing end-game, but when an opponent gets 20 or fewer cards, they're just about done, and the tools you have to get rid of them are plentiful, and they'll be down to nothing before it does anything useful. Or in multiplayer, you'll be stretching out the life of one player for a maximum 20 turns so that it can do something

Diluvian Primordial is great, but it's best played when it can enter the battlefield multiple times. You need strong resurrection, which you have, but you're more committed to Primordial. It's a solid choice

Kozilek, Butcher of Truth is one of the strongest EDH cards, but it requires a ton of mana. Do you think you can get that much mana and not regret using 10 of it? Unfortunately, you can't cast him from a graveyard, so you're forced to cast from hand. Remember, with 10 mana, you can cast Clever Impersonator Phyrexian Metamorph and (lose 2 life)Capsize or Lim-Dul's Vault in one turn. Good if you have extra mana, bad if you have dedicated mana

2 cents, out.

I think you should put a Mesmeric Orb in instead. The card is absolutely bonkers. In Phenax mill, most cards can't mill more than 10 in one round of turns. However, the orb mills at least around 7 cards per opponent, which is awesome. The only downside is it mills you too, and it often mills you more than the other people since you're tapping your creatures for Phenax's ability (but then again, they'll have less cards than you and be milled sooner). I've played this card on turn 2 in my Phenax deck, and my opponent's were refusing to cast spells because they didn't want the mill from untapping their lands. Anything that prevents people from casting spells is great.

Thanks guys for the suggestions and thoughts.

GardeNoir I was leaning towards the Diluvian Primordial myself, as it can offer some real value. My main thought with Kozilek, Butcher of Truth was that if I am able to cast him, he's a real threat and draws me 4 cards. He also offers protection in a mirror match, and can allow me to recycle my graveyard. Finally the "Butcher of Truth" is on-theme with a deck built around the God of Deception and Lord of the Lies.

Lanzo493 I just haven't been sold on the idea of runing Mesmeric Orb as I hate the thought of milling away my important stuff. That said, I do think it might have a place in the deck if I did include Kozilek, Butcher of Truth too, as he could mitigate the self-mill effects nicely. I'll certainly give it some more thought.

Having written this, I'm now actually leaning towards the Kozilek, Butcher of Truth + Mesmeric Orb package. It might be fun.

So I think I may have reached the point were this deck is as close to my concept of perfect. I may fiddle with it a bit, but I am finding that it is now doing everything I want it to do.

That said, please continue to make suggestions if you can think of anything I might have missed.

No Hedron Crab?

I had Hedron Crab in but thought Soothsaying or Mystic Remora would give me greater value. Testing now.

+1 love edh mill. people say it can't be done>:) check out Jace's Vengeance by Immortalized. My edh mill control deck, and be free with your comments.

I originally based my deck off of your deck with some changes (due to cost mainly). I like a lot of what you did, but I ended up taking out most of your graveyard stuff and going with Oona as my general. Mill was fun, like REALLY fun, with phenax but it simply didn't win because people either had some card to bring graveyard back to deck, or did much graveyard stuff it killed me.

I REALLY think oona will boss as a leader, and instead of typical mill, get everything exiled. It's also cool because your graveyard is still full to do fun stuff with.

Just some thoughts :)

Cool, thanks for the comment. I really like Phenax, but if I ever do decide to switch, I will give Oona a shot.

I'm using your deck as serious inspiration for making my own mill deck. I had considered Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker as the commander, but he relies on more Voltron I think. I did have a question though, is there any reason why you are running Eater of the Dead? I feel, thematically, Dragonlord Silumgar would be a better fit, as he is the dragon lord of deceit and thievery. Plus, the old fat dragon steals planeswalkers.

+1!

You really do want Hedron Crab. Run him and as many fetches fit in the deck and suddenly you have a very value card.

Wall of Frost doesn't mill on its own, but it is hard to get around, and with your commander out...

Triton Tactics untaps AND adds +3 toughness to two different creatures

badgurfield Thanks for the compliment. I run Eater of the Dead because it goes pseudo infinite with Phenax.

I'm confused. He's only milling for 1, isn't he? Due to his toughness. What's the chance of you always hitting a creature?

No, his toughness is 4. So he mills for 4. And in the event that you're playing against a mostly creatureless deck, mill yourself a bunch to make a bunch of dead things then use you graveyard to untap and mill your opponents out.

Community Poll: Which is superior in this deck and why?

King Macar, the Gold-Cursed

or

Surgespanner

?????????????

I realize you're exiling creatures from yards and some of your stuff is buffed by creatures in yards, but I'm surprised Rise of the Dark Realms was not included. The effect is too powerful.

Also, Consecrated Sphinx has a big butt and a powerful effect despite the hate for it. There has to be a less-efficient creature to swap for it.

Hey MalcolmCheese, thanks for weighing in. I agree that Rise of the Dark Realms is a bonkers card, but it's 9 CMC is very steep and it may not always be what I want to draw, especially in the early game. To me, there are just other things that are cheaper to cast, more well rounded and more thematic. Great suggestion otherwise.

Consecrated Sphinx on the other hand, is a very good suggestion, and honestly, I'm not sure why I didn't think of it.

This deck now seems to have a Shapeshifter sub-theme, so I thought it appropriate to run with it, and added in Vesuva for themey-goodness.

Sorry friend have you considered Geth, Lord of the Vault?

I'm sorry, I can't believe I didn't see this and reply sooner TheBatchCode. I did try Geth at one point, but at his CMC, there were just other cards that I wanted to run more. Don't get me wrong, he's great and all, but just wasn't my top choice.

Great ideas here. I am working on a Phenax deck as well that needs to be competitive because my friends seem to make top tier EDH decks I get destroyed with. Please check out mine and give some talking points at Phenax Millton, Paradise Lost.

What about Traumatize for a kill shot with Guiltfeeder? Seems like there's good potential Guiltfeeder can take advantage of with cards like Keening Stone as well.