I like Traumatize a alot, but just couldn't figure out what to cut for it.

I had Keening Stone in at one point, but just found that I never wanted it whenever I drew it. In my opinion, your better off loading up on creatures to use with Phenax's granted ability, and then a bunch of universal mill effects that don't target for when a player has Hexproof or Shroud.

I reccommend Super Secret Tech, heheheh.

hey so a few questions, do you usually have enough mana and colorless for Endbringer and kozilek? and why erebos? isn't the life gain clause fairly irrelevant in a mill deck? and one suggestion, Sewer Nemesis instead of Perplexing Chimera damn cool deck though, very similar to mine. pointers would be appreciated! Deck Killer

Hey soulofsteel0, thanks for the comment and questions. Endbringer is a fairly new addition to the deck, but yes, I'd say I usually don't have trouble casting or using it.

Kozilek is really mostly in here as a way to recycle my graveyard and turn Mesmeric Orb, Dreamborn Muse, and other symmetrical mill effects less of a threat to me. When you consider that your graveyard is kind of like an extension of your hand, and mass milling as mass card draw (when you have ways to interact with the cards in your yard), the only worry becomes "will I run out before they do?".

I like Erebos and Thassa because they are both hard to remove permanents with Big Butts, and as Gods of Theros, they seemed on-theme to me. Thassa's Scry on upkeep, and Erebos' ability to draw me cards are both quite useful, even if they never come online as creatures. Erebos' "Opponents can't gain life" ability is just icing on the cake.

I did consider and try Sewer Nemesis at one point, but opted against it because it needs to target a specific Opponent. If that Opponent dies, then the Sewer Nemesis loses it's potency. It's just not my fave.

I run Perplexing Chimera and Void Winnower because they are both Warm Bodies that can be tapped to mill, but who also shape the politics of the game and the decisions/possibilities of my opponents whilst in play. The amount of disruption Perplexing Chimera causes when any spell could be stolen on a whim, is priceless. Opponents hold back, delay their board state's advancement, because they can't be sure what will happen next. Void Winnower can not only provide a huge threat on the battlefield, but it can also cut people off from up to half of their spells... Even their Commander! Such a great card....

I hope this commentary helps you understand the design decisions I made. Feel free to ask for more if anything doesn't make sense to you. I'll try to check your deck out soon, but want to do more than take a 20 second glance at it. I'll look and comment when I can.

Scrying_Rogue I WISH Super Secret Tech was legal

I love your deck concept! I'm playing a similar one, had to proxy Eater of the Dead since I couldn't find it at any of my local shops. I play multiplayer modes like "Star" and "King" and it still works wonders. I singlehandedly milled 3 opponents out in one turn with the Phenax + EotD combo. Anyways, I was wondering what other combos are hidden in your list that are fun to do.

Thanks for the complement Avro. I wouldn't really call then "hidden" combos, but Duskmantle Guildmage or Bloodchief Ascension + Mindcrank are pretty much gg.

With Phenax in play, Intruder Alarm + Undead Alchemist is also pretty much gg.

One time, I had my Clever Impersonator copy my Intruder Alarm, so every time a creature came into play, I could tap everything in response to mill a ton (from Phenax), then untap from the first Intruder Alarm trigger, tap again to mill more, untap from the second Intruder Alarm trigger, then tap once more on my final opponent's end step to mill once more. It was gross.

So a few things I'd like to ask, as I'm in the process of building Phenax myself.

Is there a specific reason you're not running Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, Hall of the Bandit Lord, or Oblivion Sower. These 3 have made their way into my deck, but I'm wondering if you had reasons to exclude them.

Another question, how good have cards like Archive Trap and Traumatize been for you? I'm wondering as I've found one use mill effects to be rather lacking in any multiplayer game I play.

Other than that, I think the deck looks fantastic, and I thank you greatly for the ideas.

Thanks for asking your questions, I'll try to do answer as best I can.

So I'm not running Newlamog, simply because I've not really considered it yet, and I don't generally count on casting anything that big TBH. While he's no doubt awesome, it really comes down to figuring out what I'd then cut, and well, that becomes very hard.

Hall of the Bandit Lord could be good. I hadn't considered it. Same with Oblivion Sower. I think I'm more into actual milling vs. exiling because a lot of my cards care about stuff in the graveyard.

Archive Trap is a new addition, but I anticipate that it could be exceptionally useful, especially after an opponent tutors (Vampiric, Enlightened, Worldly, Mystical) for that one piece they need for their win condition. Traumatize is also fairly new, and c'mon, who doesn't want to see someone dump half their library? I do generally try to run mostly reusable mill on creatures with big butts, or global mill effects.

You really lack draw. Rhystic Study and planewalkers are great but thats your only draw mechanic really. Dig Through Time, Jace's Archivist, Phyrexian Arena, Foresee,Visions of Beyond etc, are all excellent choices to help keep your hand full. Phenax looses momentum for me and then I pick my arse while trying to do things which I cannot because by then I'm the weak link and target in most games. Draw becomes super important in Phenax i've found.

Walkman Sorry for the late response, for some reason, I didn't see this.

I can totally understand, drawing is always a great thing, but I find that it's not usually a problem here. Jace's Archivist is certainly work consideration though, and Visions of Beyond is a card I have considered in the past.

Really cool deck, think I might try and build something similar, since I've always loved the Theros gods. What really piqued my interest was the new Tree of Perdition spoiled in EMN. What are your thoughts on it, and if you decided to play it what would you cut?

I definitely want to run it in here. As for what to cut, likely one of the Shapshifters that clone, or maybe Mortivore

Or perhaps Guiltfeeder

I also have the question: how do you deal with people who run anti-mill cards, like Elixir of Immortality or Kozilek? Is there a way to win that match up?

Also, I'm curious if you would have more budget suggestions for really expensive cards like mana drain or Underground Sea, just as examples? Sorry, I just don't have as nearly an impressive collection as you. Really, I'd like to start off on a more semi-budget build and then grow to something like this if I really enjoy it. Sorry, I know that's kind of undermining all the testing you do. I kind of have my heart set on building an EDH deck with one of the gods, and I'm torn between this and Epheara or maybe Atheros or Kruphix. Really Id like to build an EDH deck for all of them, the gods are some of my favorite creatures! Anyway, I'd really appreciate some advice.

Hey, no worries asking stuff like this Tappyy.

So, for things like Elixir of Immortality and Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, I run Sadistic Sacrament. Normally, it will trim 3 problem cards from a deck. Kicked, it can completely hamstring a deck, plucking out entire strategies. With our own reshuffle effects, it can do lots of work.

In terms of budget options, there's really no "Right" answer. Any coloured mana producing land will do, or trim it and add a utility land that addresses your local meta. Heck, even a basic is fine! For Mana Drain, try substituting in Faerie Trickery, Hinder, Perplex, or any other counter. Mana Drain is nice, but it's just a counterspell with benefits.

Have you considered running Startled Awake  ^Flip?

I did. I tried it, but found that it required too much work to utilize it effectively, tying up mana that I wanted for other spells or creatures.

Could Altar of Dementia be good? Like, if a creature dies you could sac it in response? Sorry if that's a stupid suggestion, I don't run mill decks often.

It could be good, just not ideal. It's not a bad suggestion, but as always, to add it, I need to cut something

Hi Ender, it's me again! I made some substitutions to this deck to make it more affordable for me and I just wanted to get your input. Part of what made this great is that I already had a lot of the cards in this deck that are on the more expensive side-- JtMS, FoW, SDT, etc. Anyway, these are the changes I made, and i just wanted to get your insight before I decide to make this investment!

Invoke Prejudice -> In Garruk's WakeI couldn't find Prejudice for anything cheaper than 110$ or so. When I looked at it, I figured its main function in a deck like this would be one-sided card advantage. Garruk's Wake was the only appropriate substitution I could think of to fit that bill.

Mana Drain -> Faerie TrickeryThis is what you recommended to me! It seemed the best of the three spells you suggested.

Underground Sea -> Dismal BackwaterTruthfully, the only UB dual land I could think of off the top of my head that I could easily substitute. Plus I had one lying around. Not sure if another basic would be better or if Backwater can fill the hole. At least a basic would be fetchable.

Besides that, the deck remains exactly the same as you built it. I just kind of wanted your insights? This is the first time I've netdecked pretty much card-for-card, normally I tend to make an amalgamation of a bunch of different decks. I hope you're okay that I want to follow your suit here, I know this is your creation!

Anyway, I'd love any suggestions!

Looks good to me. You may find that something permanent in black is better than a sorcery like the Wake strictly for Devotion purposes, but I doubt that it will make a huge difference tbh.

I'm flattered that you're building the deck, as I really post my lists to share ideas and as a creative output... I never expect to see it built by anyone else in paper. I look forward to hearing how it played for you, and seeing what changes you make to your version of the list, based on your local meta.

Thinking about the cuts I made when I added Invoke Prejudice, I believe one thing I cut, which I have truly loved in here, was Perplexing Chimera, which is a card that forces opponents to really play around itself.