Lord Windgrace Sits Behind A Chasm

Commander / EDH Ehsteve

SCORE: 37 | 48 COMMENTS | 7243 VIEWS | IN 13 FOLDERS


xaarvaxus says... #1

Looking at the amount of green you have to cast vs the number of green sources in the deck I would think you'd have quite a few very slow starts. I'd recommend finding space for more lands that provide .

Is Cabal Coffers on your radar to get for the deck? It would really help power out Exsanguinate / Torment of Hailfire or getting to where you are casting multiple big spells per turn.

And I wonder how well explore cards would work with the lands from the 'yard theme.

January 24, 2019 10:08 p.m.

Ehsteve says... #2

Thanks for the feedback!

For mana fixing: I've found that a lot of the success of the deck comes from redundancies in the land. You may not always get the Golgari Rot Farm needed in a clutch play, but a Rakdos Carnarium works just as well as the key bounceland in a pinch to put a land into hand for pitching to Lord Windgrace or to reset a Glacial Chasm . There are some slow starts, but if a single green source is present in the opening hand plus any mixture of ramp or other accelerant (even something like a Amulet of Vigor + bounceland). Personally I've found the Amonkhet cycling lands (expecially Canyon Slough ) to be a little unnecessary, especially with access to the single mana cycling lands like Tranquil Thicket and Barren Moor .

With Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth there's certainly a lot of potential to ramp out with Cabal Coffers and I hadn't considered it seriously yet but I will look at testing it out.

I've had a think over explore with potential additions like Path of Discovery because it functions particularly well with Avenger of Zendikar or Worm Harvest but I've found in a surprising amount of games (well not surprising given the deck numbers) there have been very few creatures hitting the board. This is because often other decks that focus around creatures will often overrun anything played by this deck unless you're exceptionally lucky. If anyone's had success with it I'd be more than happy to check it out.

A further addition might be Vampiric Tutor , but I'm waiting to trade off my visions version for an EMA before I modify the paper deck.

In a few recent games the amount of lifeloss has really start to hurt the deck, and there's been consideration about including Radiant Fountain as a source of repeatable lifegain.

Current underperformers:

Journey to Eternity  Flip - Immediately hated out of most games, but when flipped it's been horrendously good.

Windgrace's Judgement - Usually in the wrong place at the wrong time, hitting too few of the necessary targets to dig this deck out of a tough spot. However it is a broad answer, which is essential to any removal suite in commander.

Borborygmos Enraged - This deck rarely has a large amount of land in hand unless it has precisely Life from the Loam or a mixture of Lord Windgrace + Rites of Flourishing . That said this turns terrible late draws into bolts for creatures, but I cannot recall the last time I didn't pitch this immediately to find something useful.

Fury Storm - Usually stranded in hand until a finisher is drawn or used as a bad counterspell.

Cut / Ribbons - Cast once for front half. Might as well wait for Exsanguinate because at least then you get some life for the trouble of tapping out.

Current overperformers:

Grapple with the Past - This card is ungodly in being cheap, instant, milling and targeted towards exactly what the decks needs in a pinch, or even when ahead.

Hour of Promise - Just too good.

Tempt with Discovery - Always better than Hour of Promise early game except if the table is at all wary of what the deck can do will often decline, or will not give it the time of day in the late game, making this an expensive ramp later on.

January 25, 2019 8:46 a.m.

Ehsteve says... #3

Friendship with Fury Storm Ended

After some more testing it has confirmed that Fury Storm simply will not cut the mustard in the deck. Now it is time to try something fresh: Underrealm Lich . Now this presents a very powerful avenue for card selection and graveyard filling, however presents a challenge in that you may possibly deck yourself as the deck has no ways of shuffling the graveyard into the library. While I haven't yet had any issues with potential decking yet, it's always better to be safe than sorry.

The first thing that came to mind was Elixir of Immortality , or simply putting in one of the eldrazi titans to provide more reliable (but less predictable) anti-mill but honestly in the colours present the options are rather limited. Another possiblity was Struggle / Survive which is fairly cheap and offers instant speed removal for a fair amount of damage along with a cheap shuffle effect.

I've since gotten my hands on a Cabal Coffers so that is going into the deck, replacing Canyon Slough . Often the amonkhet cycle lands feel worse than the single mana cyclers like Forgotten Cave or Barren Moor and all too often have ended up being discarded to an uptick of Lord Windgrace , who doesn't care what kind of land you discard at the time.

After more testing, Winding Canyons has not been the game changer that I had hoped, but I will give it a few more shots before completely discarding it from potential upgrades.

Vampiric Tutor in place of Cut / Ribbons has been one of the best quality of life improvements to the deck in a while.

One final thought is whether or not adding Retreat to Kazandu to the maybe board is worth it. The deck can burn through life surprisingly fast and without finding a Zuran Orb you can end up playing on the backfoot the entire game. If anything it voids the first lot of lifeloss from Glacial Chasm and works great with Splendid reclaimation or Scapeshift . If anyone has any thoughts on the matter, let me know!

January 31, 2019 6:06 p.m.

xaarvaxus says... #4

Good news! Because of the wording on the lich, you can't deck yourself or get milled out of the game. "If you would draw a card, instead look at.." is the key part. You aren't technically drawing a card with its effect. You can still get your library put into your graveyard but you won't lose the game from not being able to draw a card as long as the lich is in play and thankfully the designers made it a bit harder to kill.

January 31, 2019 7:03 p.m.

Ehsteve says... #5

Thanks xaarvaxus, hadn't looked over the card in much depth but it's good to know! In my previous experience I have seen other deck using The Mending of Dominaria as a solution but with how slow and uncontrollable the triggers are I was hesitant to walk down that path.

Another consideration which comes to mind as perhaps the only card from Ravnica Allegiances worth a look is Bedevil . Instant speed interaction which hits more targets than Putrefy , but has the usual drawback of more intensive mana requirements. I think it may slot nicely into the deck, especially as an answer to planeswalkers, which this deck has a fairly limited way to deal with short of Assassin's Trophy .

February 2, 2019 1:19 a.m.

Ehsteve says... #6

Okay so some more changes:

Next in line for testing:

February 5, 2019 10:51 p.m.

Ehsteve says... #7

More thoughts:

Bedevil has been tested and I think it is a good replacement for Putrefy , or potentially working in tandem.

While on paper Deserted Temple seemed like a good addition for mana fixing, the only real synergy it has in the deck is untapping a Cabal Coffers with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth . Deserted Temple generally works a lot better when paired alongside lands like City of Traitors or Scorched Ruins but since this deck doesn't play either of those options it is a prime candidate for cutting. The most likely replacement is another basic Forest . Vesuva covers the same angle, but with far more flexibility.

Worm Harvest is another candidate for replacement. In a grand total of one game I have cast this spell, and the advantage is that it can be reused from the graveyard but unfortunately it is slow strategy (even for this deck) and is an inefficient way of getting land into the graveyard even if that becomes the main reason for using it in the first place.

More and more I find myself falling out of love with Wayward Swordtooth . Early game it provides some slight ramp, but ultimately a 5/5 that doesn't block effectively for Lord Windgrace until we get city's blessing is underwhelming. Especially in that critical 3-drop where we would otherwise want to cast an Azusa, Lost but Seeking for even more land drop potential (especially with Crucible of Worlds ) or Harrow for mana fixing.

I've also had a change of heart of Journey to Eternity  Flip. This has mainly become tech against sacrifice-based strategies such as Sheoldred, the Whispering One or any deck playing Grave Pact / Dictate of Erebos .

Another few additions to the maybe-board that I've seen played across a few other Lord Windgrace decks are:

The primary issue with Chandra, Torch of Defiance is that her uptick for quasi-card advantage can exile an essential land with no chance to bring it back, but she does represent another win condition with her ultimate (even if it is slow). If you are only using Chandra for her mana uptick, I think that it's a waste as a 4-mana ramp spell. Whereas Nissa, Vastwood Seer  Flip provices something the deck really likes doing: ramping or drawing cards. The downside of this Nissa is that her downtick is not fantastic, but I guess it provides a blocker to help protect her or Lord Windgrace . Further her ultimate (turning 6 lands into 6/6s) leaves lands vulnerable, but also represents a potential game-winning swing *(note that this does not give the lands haste so this has absolutely no synergy with anything that brings land back from the graveyard to the battlefield or making extra land drops as they would be subject to summoning sickness and would not even be able to tap for mana if you were planning of using it for Exsanguinate or Torment of Hailfire ).

February 12, 2019 6:40 p.m.

KayneMarco says... #8

The only things I would change to the deck is to add Mina and Denn, Wildborn , Ob Nixilis, the Fallen and move the Wayward Swordtooth to your mainboard. Ob nixilis is a game changer if opponents can’t get rid of him.

February 26, 2019 8:43 a.m.

Ehsteve says... #9

Thanks for the suggestions KayneMarco!

I've tried Wayward Swordtooth for a long time in the deck but it consistently ended up being less impressive than any of the other ramp creatures as it ended up doing very little early game (unable to block or attack) and late game was just as impactful (a lot of creatures bigger than a 5/5). A short time ago it was cut from the deck and since then I haven't felt any significant degradation to how it plays.

Ob Nixilis, the Fallen has been on the radar for a long time, however I think that he represents too much of a threat in terms of board politics, and doesn't represent an impactful or game-winning threat upon resolution like say an Omnath, Locus of Rage or the utility of a Borborygmos Enraged . The threat density of the deck is a little light so I'll give it a try at a later date if Squandered Resources doesn't work out.

Mina and Denn, Wildborn do seem to naturally work well with any creature large enough to really make the trample aspect important, but this deck doesn't really play any of those kinds of threats reliably. I imagine it works well in concert with Ob Nixilis, the Fallen . My issue is that unlike the other impactful ramp creatures (such as Azusa, Lost but Seeking , Oracle of Mul Daya or Lotus Cobra ) the secondary ability doesn't really shine. That said it potentially allows you to replay Glacial Chasm multiple times to reset counters and protect it at instant speed from removal, so I'll give it some more thought and revisit that one soon.

February 27, 2019 2:02 a.m.

Always love to see other Lord Windgrace decks. Here are a couple suggestions based on some of the comments:

If you are worried about life loss, Retreat to Hagra is a much better option than Retreat to Kazandu . Both of it's abilities are more relevant IMO.

Need for Speed is an all-star in my Windgrace build. The combo with Titania, Protector of Argoth wins games out of nowhere.

March 28, 2019 8:33 p.m.

Ehsteve says... #11

New day, new thoughts!

After mulling over War of the Spark for some time I think that some minor improvements can be made to the deck with at least one of the new utility lands and perhaps a new creature. For your consideration:

Blast Zone : Difficult to interact with, potential mana sink, fantastic target for recursion, good political card. Main point against is that if you use this to replace a coloured source of mana this does increase the likelihood of those disappointing off colour starts. Originally I was considering Sheltered Thicket as a potential cut but also Rakdos Carnarium has become increasingly apparent as just another bounce effect rather than having a mana-fixing angle. Another potential cut is Drownyard Temple as while in theory it may seem like a no-brainer inclusion based upon the card text alone, I can barely count on one hand the number of times this has actually been an effective play apart from possibly ramping a single land.

Evolution Sage : I was skeptical and remain so that this has much of a place in the deck as the only effective target would be proliferating on Lord Windgrace which I don't think is a solid enough reason to justify any cuts to make this inclusion.

The underperformers:

Squandered Resources : I don't think you can really justify this in the full 100 anymore as often it has ended up as a pitch to windgrace or desperation sac outlet instead of trying to find an actual win condition. In terms of enabling big mana, it seems far more reliable to go on the search for Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + Cabal Coffers because at least you can copy Cabal Coffers with Thespian's Stage and Vesuva whereas Squandered Resources is a one-and-done type investment unless you have the Splendid reclaimation in hand. I think this may be the cut to try out Mina and Denn, Wildborn .

Rakdos Carnarium , Sheltered Thicket and Luxury Suite : I think the deck has been leaning a little too heavily on rounding out the mana base when it has been progressively moving away from red. I believe that one of these is a prime cut prospectively for Nuturing Peatland when Modern Horizons drops and also for Blast Zone .

May 27, 2019 8:06 p.m.

Evolution Sage would also proliferate Avenger of Zendikar 's tokens

May 30, 2019 2:04 p.m.

Ehsteve says... #13

A good point InutilisVisEst.

I'm still unsure as to whether it's worth a cut to try to moderately improve those two cards already mentioned (though I forgot Nissa, Vital Force and Tireless Tracker as other possible targets). Personally I believe it's more of a win-more with this particular build of the deck whereas with more targets I could see a stronger drive to make a cut.

May 31, 2019 1:58 a.m.

Ehsteve says... #14

Times are changing!

With Modern Horizons, now seems like the time to make a few key changes to hopefully not only improve the consistency of the deck but also add in a few new fun tools.

Old and busted:

Squandered Resources : I can see why this is appealing in the mass land destruction or fast mana decks, but honestly it didn't play out great in this build because the finishers aren't exactly that fast, or a few extra mana is unlikely to change the outcome (one or two Cabal Coffers + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is usually enough, and not only that, far more consistent with searching effects).

Luxury Suite : The mana base is slowly taking the desired shape, as before it was very much mirrored on all three colours with very few red or black cards. I've found consistently that a R/B untapped source is underwhelming and does very little to help ramp out early game and there is an oversaturation of fixing already present.

Rakdos Carnarium : Same issue as above, I used to feel that the third bounceland for the bounce effect was enough, but looking at the results I feel like this is an easy cut, the R/B fixing is good enough in this deck to not need to warrant another.

Drownyard Temple : while it may seem an easy addition, the effect has been lacklustre, at best a sac outlet for The Gitrog Monster or Glacial Chasm at best, but that doesn't feel like a consistent or effective gameplan.

New hotness:

Blast Zone : I have good feeling about this card; it has utility, it is a mana sink, recur it as you will. It's like a second Pernicious Deed with less steps.

Nurturing Peatland : G/B mana fixing, draw a card, easy include.

Mina and Denn, Wildborn : Am testing this out mainly because unlike Wayward Swordtooth it has a secondary ability that may be of use for interactions like protecting Glacial Chasm from removal, while also allowing a second landfall trigger if needed or simply as a way to pitch a land to Lord Windgrace ticking up.

Wrenn and Six : I'm big on this planeswalker in this particular build because Exsanguinate , Torment of Hailfire , Splendid reclaimation, Hour of Promise , Windgrace's Judgement and Scapeshift are all prime targets for recursion with retrace. The tick up is relevant, and the tick down...well like Lord Windgrace 's ultimate we'll just forget about that one and move on.

I have a good feeling about all these changes, let me know if there are any changes you would also suggest ( Tectonic Reformation was on the cards, but can't see another good target to cut and am unsure whether it is just another situational enchantment).

The land base has gone down for 42 to 41, but this should not massively effect the consistency of land drops.

June 15, 2019 12:36 a.m.

Ehsteve says... #15

Recent spoilers have given lands-matter this little gem:

Field of the Dead

Now given that these Windgrace decks are running multiple lands of different names, along with spells like Scapeshift and Splendid Reclamation , this could potentially function as a win condition based solely upon landfall, along with being difficult to interact with. Better yet these zombie tokens enter untapped, so you could for example flash a blocker off a Crop Rotation or recur fetchlands for great effect.

Only issue is that it enters tapped and it is a colourless source, for which this archetype is not lacking. Could be a replacement for Homeward Path (as much as I hate leaving the board open to YOINK decks) or maybe one of the worse wasteland effects like Tectonic Edge .

June 19, 2019 11 p.m. Edited.

Ehsteve says... #17

Exciting updates:

The cuts:

These cuts feel fairly easy from how I feel the way the deck has shaped up recently. Borborygmos Enraged on paper seems like the perfect fit for the deck but honestly, without a lot of reanimation the deck is probably doing much better things than trying to cast a 8 mana spell that doesn't impact the board immediately, nor does it win the game in one fell swoop. Throwing out multiple bolts with a Life from the Loam does seem nice, but this deck has very few ways of easily assembling that synergy, on top of being rather mana-intensive. Tectonic Edge has been on the chopping block for a long time. Strip Mine and Wasteland just fit that slot so well without needing to leave mana open to activate. With the currently capacity to search for lands in the deck, I think three sources is too many, whereas 2 feels about right. Again in different versions of this deck, I can imagine these cards making a lot more sense, but in its current iteration, this deck has drifted quite a bit from where it started.

The new tech:

I think that the new core set has a lot to offer to this deck, much more than a lot of past sets. Personally not that hot on the green and red cavaliers as they don't offer enough for their casting cost, but there is a lot of potential in more budget builds. Field of the Dead just seems like the easiest include for this deck. Especially once you factor in land copying effects like Vesuva and Thespian's Stage , the ability to generate multitudes of zombie tokens is rather scary. Dread Presence just feels like that little edge the deck needed to just go off late game with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth . A Scapeshift can be that much more devastating for an opponent or an opportunity to draw into an out or win condition. The other factor is the lifegain, which can mitigate the cost of maintaining the Glacial Chasm .

Looking towards the future:

The following cards that are in the spotlight to adding, cutting or swapping:

  • Elvish Reclaimer : Summoning sickness is a massive detriment to how I feel about this card, especially as a late-game draw. The effect is rather powerful with this build so I will not write off this card anytime soon.
  • Prismatic Vista : It's in the mail on its merry way and will probably either replace Evolving Wilds or perhaps Sheltered Thicket .

Swaps:

  • Sheltered Thicket for Forest : I no longer think that the current red fixing in the deck is justified, and the cycling has come into play very little versus any of the other three cycling lands due to the cost. This is especially true in the early game where the difference between one and two mana is rather large when ramping. The entering tapped is also detrimental to both early and late game mana. Once Prismatic Vista is slotted into the deck, the more basics, the better.
July 20, 2019 7:31 a.m.

Ehsteve says... #18

Quick addendum after some more playtesting!

Some more thoughts on the long-term future of the deck, and some quality-of-life improvements:

  • Boseiju, Who Shelters All : while it doesn't stop a Venser, Shaper Savant , it does stop the vast majority of counters from interacting with a big Exsanguinate or Torment of Hailfire . This doesn't feel great though as an early game draw, and the land base does feel a little stretched at the moment. This might not be an inclusion until after another lookover of the land base.
  • Volrath's Stronghold : This could be a land substitute for Journey to Eternity  Flip, allowing you to recycle creatures without having to go through the two-step process of flipping the aura.
  • Beseech the Queen : Another possible tutor that can hit anything in the deck including land, not a bad topdeck lategame to find a finisher.
  • Veil of Summer : I'm not 100% sold on this but it makes your spells uncounterable for a turn, on top of this it stops most spells that interact with land (such as Assassin's Trophy and Vindicate ) on top of stopping blue targeted bounce effects like Venser, Shaper Savant .
  • Mirage Mirror : I was initially skeptical of this card, however after seeing it in play I'm not against it's inclusion in this archetype, the main consideration will be what is the appropriate cut?

Nevertheless, I think the deck is hitting a nice balance of keeping true to theme but remaining competitiveness at the moment.

July 21, 2019 8:58 p.m.

Ehsteve says... #19

Okay now the latest updates:

The cuts:

  • Journey to Eternity  Flip: With both Homeward Path and Volrath's Stronghold now available and with creatures being relatively low cost (the exception being Avenger of Zendikar ) I feel like this was just something that had to be done sooner or later. If someone is stealing creatures from the graveyard, just pull out the Homeward Path and get them back (also a good political card in these matchups). The only issue is effects like The Scarab God where tokens are created instead. There are just too many way to have this enchantment fall apart before it flips, and you either have to have the boardwipe in hand or bargain for someone else to kill the creature (which will most likely not be blocked, and players will rarely swing in for cheap damage while this is in play)
  • Amulet of Vigor : This was added very early on and when the deck was playing a lot of tap lands and was focused around Scapeshift and Splendid Reclamation for big mana. However as time went on, and as Cabal Coffers + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth was added, along with ways to search out multiple lands at once along with tutors, this card has felt more and more underwhelming. Only use I can really think is for a Thawing Glaciers + Amulet of Vigor to try and thin out basics from the deck but honestly the deck does that well enough already.

New hotness:

The immediate future:

  • Beseech the Queen : I have a feeling that this might be either a bridge too far (diminishing return on tutors) or the perfect include as it fits theme and the playstyle (generate a whole bunch of mana from Coffers + Urborg and just search out the Torment/Exsanguinate for the win). The cuts here will most likely be Mina and Denn, Wildborn as I have not felt their abilities being really that effective.
  • More Basics: Sheltered Thicket will be cut to fit in another basic forest, also the basic land images will be updated for alterations once they arrive.
July 31, 2019 10:04 p.m.

Ehsteve says... #20

Updates

So the most recent addition of Beseech the Queen has been a great success! Late game this can often be better than a Vampiric Tutor as there's no second step to get it to hand from the top of the library and all the win conditions ( Exsanguinate & Torment of Hailfire ) are CMC 2.

After going over the mana base yet again, I think it's in a bit of a transition phase because we've again reduced the dependence on red (in most cases only needing one available red source for the ability to cast Lord Windgrace , Bedevil or Blasphemous Act ) and the ability to fix mana is very reliable in this build. This has led me to think that there is room to shift over some of the ratios to help improve early game consistency of hitting untapped green mana for ramping, or maybe adding an additional Swamp for an early game tutor effect. The cards which are currently on the chopping block to make way for this are:

  • Sheltered Thicket : Long time candidate for cutting.
  • Forgotten Cave : Cycling lands only gets you so far in this deck, especially as much as it hurts early mana. In builds which use Tectonic Reformation I completely understand the need, but it's been at the back of my mind for some time.
  • Blood Crypt : The main reason I'm hesistant to cut this particular card is that it's a way to fetch black mana off a Wooded Foothills if Overgrown Tomb is no longer available. Since there are no original duals in the deck, this is a serious concern. If any of the battlelands lands from zendikar get reprinted in enemy colours (G/B) that would be up for consideration, but I'm not hopefuly for that happening any time soon (far more likely than splashing out for original duals anyway).

If all of these changes take place it would look at something like a 6/1/2 split of basic Forest / Mountain / Swamp . I feel this is a good ratio to have.

Please feel free to let me know if you have any further thoughts/comments on the mana base as it currently is. All feedback is very much appreciated!

August 8, 2019 8:27 p.m.

Ehsteve says... #21

Updates

Some changes have been made to allow room for more basics that have been a long time coming:

Now a few more planned changes in the short term:

  • Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle or Blood Crypt out: either will swapped for another basic Forest . The reason for the change of heart on Valakut is that this deck is playing so few mountains in the deck that the only reliable way to trigger it is with Prismatic Omen , which requires ones of our precious tutors instead of one of the many, many land-related tutors we have available. In addition once Prismatic Omen hits the graveyard, the only way to retrieve it is with an Eternal Witness . With this in mind I just think that Dread Presence does the job just that much better. Prismatic Omen is still a great card for mana-fixing and acts as a second Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in a pinch.

  • Mirage Mirror in: I feel like this is a great card to include as it has fantastic flexibility. Being able to copy an opponents creature, artifact, enchantment or land and shift its type to dodge removal for a fairly low cost provides for interesting interactions and furthermore is another way to copy a Cabal Coffers to ensure that the turn the Torment of Hailfire is a game ender. Still unsure of what to possibly cut to make room for this.

  • Ayula's Influence : I've seen this an increasing amount in other Windgrace decks and am interested to test it out. While I have the feeling that throwing out lands for the sake of it isn't the best way to play the deck (as there are no infinite loops or combos) being able to generate blockers at instant speed is still a useful for defending Lord Windgrace or for quick ramping with a down-tick from Lord Windgrace . I am even less sure of what to cut for this than Mirage Mirror . This is a very tentative addition, but I am sure it works great as a budget option.

August 18, 2019 8:05 p.m.

Mr_Engineer says... #22

Love the write ups here. I like reading what you've done to your deck and your thoughts behind it. I'm still in the process of tweaking my deck a bit. Check it out here Lord Windgrace's Serfs. I'd love your thoughts and opinions. As I said, I've still got plenty of tweaking to do and updates to give to it. I'm going back and forth with what I want my overall strategy to be in the deck. Anyway, nice work!

August 19, 2019 6:06 p.m.

Ehsteve says... #23

Current state of all things

So after a few more games with the list as it stands I have the following thoughts:

  • The deck feels like it has the right balance of responses and proactive play, giving it flexibility in how it approaches a table. The main strategy of ramping, tutoring out Cabal Coffers + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and then hitting the table with a large Torment of Hailfire works consistently, especially when you are able to play and defend a Glacial Chasm long enough to prevent a large swathe of your opponents' win conditions (primarily damage, whether in or outside of combat). Unless there is another major release from the next few sets I don't see this deck making any major changes in the near future. Prismatic Vista is really pulling its weight with the increase in basic lands from the previous changes, which is great!

  • The land utility is fine as it is, with the exception of a few minor changes to adjust for new ratios (particularly Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle as we have a whopping 3 mountains in the deck).

  • As hard as it is to comprehend, I don't think Turntimber Sower is actually that great a card in this deck. In a more token-based strategy, or were it to rely more heavily upon Avenger of Zendikar through reanimation it might make more sense, but this isn't a Gitrog Monster deck. A lot of decks don't care about a handful of 0/1 creatures, either because they go wider, taller, or have evasion, and the activated ability actually takes quite a few steps to return a single land card to hand. It works as a redundant effect to try and recur land from the graveyard, but the first ability does very little if you can't exploit it for maximum effect. I have a differing opinion about Sylvan Safekeeper as he is himself a free land sacrificing outlet off a single mana to cast, and allows the deck to defend its creature value engines like The Gitrog Monster , Tireless Tracker and Dread Presence .

  • I'm starting to feel like Zuran Orb doesn't do enough by itself to warrant inclusion. As a lifegain engine it's a very fine balancing act to utilise the lifegain but still maintain your mana. It is however one of the few ways the deck has to regain life. With Dread Presence in the deck there is at least another option for lifegain, but that requires additional assembly, being Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth . Personally I like the FTV art, so that's been what's been making it a harder than usual cut, but I'll let it slide a little longer and see how it goes.

Ramblings

  • From the new commander sets, of the cards which haven't been reprinted, the following are the only ones currently on the radar for even speculative additions:

  • Nightmare Unmaking : As a potential replacement for Blasphemous Act . The only issue with this is that the exiling effect can make certain creatures unrecoverable, especially value engine cards. Opponents can also interact with this effect by making you draw, discard or wheel at instant speed, for which this deck has no real response.

  • Bone Miser : I imagine that this card could become monstrous for mana generation alongside Ayula's Influence in versions of this deck. Also works with an uptick from Lord Windgrace . Were there more wheel effects in this deck it might be an easier choice.

Other thoughts for discussion

Now I'm trying to fish for some advice as to Lotus Field :

My thoughts on this are very mixed.

Pros: Even more difficult to interact with than other lands due to hexproof, fixes mana (to a degree), is psuedo-ramp if you can get down Lord Windgrace to recur the two sacrificed land. I have one available.

Cons: Slow, oh so slow. This card isn't exactly explosive unless you are able to run Amulet of Vigor (which was cut a little while ago). The sacrificing clause makes this an abyssmal starting land in hand. The mana generated is all of one colour so there is the prospect of it limiting options early game. You can't cast a Lord Windgrace off this without two other lands that tap for the requisite mana. That said the commander is the only three-coloured card in the entire deck. I am also not sure of the cut that would be required to make room for this in the mana base.

August 22, 2019 1:18 a.m. Edited.

Ehsteve says... #24

More points for discussion

I am no longer convinced that Omnath, Locus of Rage is the best fit for the deck his only real synergy in this case is when after paying his full cost (7 mana), resolving a Scapeshift , Splendid Reclamation before using a board wipe like Damnation or Blasphemous Act wherein all this time, Omnath, Locus of Rage himself is not removed. There seem to be just too many points of failure to too little reward in this case.

I believe that Avenger of Zendikar is in a slightly different boat as the plant tokens are put down as part of the resolution, and he is not reliant red mana as well as green mana to cast. The main mana accelerant in the deck is Cabal Coffers + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to try and resole a large Exsanguinate or Torment of Hailfire so colour fixing large cost spells is important. Most creatures are also based around synergies such as:

This excludes utility creatures such as Eternal Witness or Acidic Slime which are supposed to be broad stroke ways of dealing with multple situations/threats.

I think that potentially Omnath, Locus of Rage and Turntimber Sower may be the cuts to fit in Mirage Mirror and Elvish Reclaimer as more utility rather than trying divert resources into what feels like a 3-card synergy for which the deck has limited (or precious) tutors.

Other thoughts

When the deck was originally put together (from the precon) I was throwing around a whole bunch of cards and one that caught my eye was a foil copy of Reap and Sow I had lying around. Compared to Realms Uncharted and Hour of Promise it may appear underwhelming but it does have two important distinctions: the land enters untapped, and it can be a targeted land destruction spell if needed. Now specifically this could be used to destroy two lands if needed by entwining the costs and also retrieving a Wasteland or Strip Mine but I think that an unrestricted land search effect wouldn't be unwelcome. There is limited room for cuts until a bit more testing but I think that it could be a good supplemental effect. The only concern would be having an oversaturation of land search effects without payoffs.

September 5, 2019 11:29 p.m.

Ehsteve says... #25

More Thoughts

After reviewing a few other Windgrace/land decks, a common thread I spotted between a fair few is the use of Storm Cauldron . I can see the thought pattern behind it as this archetype is reliably playing quite a few more lands than the opponents during its turn, and can leverage that to cripple any opponent's ability to effectively play on curve as they will be consistently returning their land to hand. Personally I'm not a fan of this strategy because it is likely to draw a lot of ire from groups (more than usual that is). However it is a fair addition to any Windgrace deck that isn't looking at mass land destruction as a way of crippling their opponents' manabase (though I would suggest Contamination as another option).

Then I came across a gem in and of this deck (Furmidable Meowntain of Pawsibilities) that sparked much joy: Cloudstone Curio . What is so interesting about this particular card is that it can act as protection for certain permanents and as an additional source of land ETBs. Fetches can turn into instant speed ways to retract a Glacial Chasm or Field of the Dead where it would otherwise be exiled or vulnerable in the graveyard if you do not have other instant-speed ways of retrieving it (like Grapple with the Past ). At an earlier stage I had originally thought about adding Noxious Revival but that leaves you open to mill (when you're not trying to do it yourself). The other advantage is that it is a 'may' ability so there is no obligation to play around the Cloudstone Curio in a paticular manner.

I can see this as a potential replacement for Zuran Orb , but this will require some time to consider. With Cloudstone Curio you would also consider adding in a Dryad Arbor as a way to potentially bounce creatures off a fetch or similar search effect. However this would make this a two-card swap rather than just one (though I have my own gripes about Dryad Arbor being a slow, vulnerable land with very little in the way of utility with the exception of the aforementioned scenario). Fetching for a Dryad Arbor to block a single attacker is rarely worth it in commander so that has never been a serious consideration even in the early days of the deck.

September 16, 2019 8:33 p.m.

Please login to comment