I would cut Myriad Landscape and Buried Ruin as one comes in tapped and cost 2 to activate and Ruin is really just a bad replacement for Junk Diver or Myr Retriever. Atleast thoughs are creatures and trigger your Pact and can get you back Expedition Map for better land drops.

I would also stay away from Mike because the owner gets the creature back so you don't want that if your planning on nabbing an opponents playthings.

Good point about Buried Ruin I was just using it as another sort of redundancy with the myr, but what you said is true. I'll probably go back to Junk Diver and drop to 37 lands.

I'm thinking Mike here is actually great, he inherently doubles the value of all of our creatures (outside of Chainer and XHD), provides a nice devotion count, and is a somewhat poor mans chainer with the undying clause. Worst case scenario we just sac him if we control any enemy creatures so they don't return to enemy side with persist. Otherwise he can help develop the board, saves some life due to less instant recursion requirements, and at worst case scenario acts as a bait rod for removal.

What you say about Mike is true. I ran him for awhile and I just didn't get enough value from him to warrant his spot I actually replaced him with Gearhulk. My Meta targets Mike with a passion also so there's that lol

The hatred for Mike is definitely real but best case scenario he forces up opponents to remove him, which artificially extends the uptime of chainer on board. I'm going to be playing a few games this weekend and hopefully some play experience will make some decisions/card choices more obvious. The meta will differ for everyone so it's always worth to try.

Kormus Bell gives you a nice "Combo Kill"

Play Urborg, Tomb of YawgmothPlay Kormus BellPlay Massacre Wurm

They all have no lands left, have lost a chunk of life and you have an army of 1/1 swampy bois to finish the job quickly.

Just a thought. Love the deck btw.

skroppy thanks for the comment - I like Kormus Bell alot! First time I've seen it. I think the only thing is that it would be a dead card in this deck until I drew/tutored the appropriate pieces. I'm making a Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed Control deck and would definitely think about including it there.

I love this deck. It's like the meaner, nastier version of my Gonti deck. I'd love to callous it up more, but I'd get tossed from my meta. Haha

Definitely going to find a way to work Imp's Mischief in though, I'd forgotten that card exists. Thank you!

+1 for this deck, and I'd love to see when you get the Xiahou Dun control online!

Thanks for the comments Inanity! My second copy of XHD is coming in the mail this week and then its time to brainstorm!

Howdy! I like the build! I've been tinkering with something similar.

I wonder if you've run into this problem yet: null rods, stony silence etc. Guardian beast doesn't do much to help us get around these pesky deterrents, and I'm flat sick of games where I've got a grip full of dank artifacts and my opponent just nixes my whole plan for two mana. Since black is THE WORST at destroying non-creature permanents, the presence of these cards in my meta has prompted me to decrease my artifact count. You're still running all of these bomb artifacts, but I'm not able to do that. I can't even run O-stone as a catch all (which you do, and I totally still would were it not for this problem). My opponents have also taken to a lot of grave hate, including gd cage, relic, and leyline of the void.

In my present list, I'm running meteor golem. Yes, meteor golem. It's clunky as hell, but it gets rid of these things that just have me twiddling my giblets otherwise. AND, it can be reanimated! Only thing that stops it is torpor orb, which at least one or two people in my group run. What are your thoughts on this? Have you run into this before, and, if so, how do you deal?

Also, what are your thoughts on Necrotic Ooze/ Triskelion (or walking ballista)/ Phyrexian Devourer combo? I run this with a Mikeaus for back up. It works nicely IMO.

OscarGoldman thanks for checking out the deck. I've been out of the game for a couple of months and haven't had time to update the deck, however, I got a few weeks of games coming up so I'll need to make some modifications ;).

You hit the nail on the head about Guardian Beast - I've added him as a flex spot due to my general artifact count but I've never seen to get good value of him. At this point I'm probably going to cut him again for something like The Abyss. I've been meaning to add Meteor Golem as this is a mandatory card for Chainer, cuttingGuardian Beast is a clear choice at this point.

I used to run Mikeus in the past but without the Nooze/Trisk/Ballista/Devourer combo. This was just a personal choice, mike and trike combo was semi disliked by our playgroup in the past, however, those restrictions are no longer in place, so it may be right to rebuild it that way. I would probably replace the current aristocrat package for mike and trike and trim some fat for more tutor(s) or board control. I like the direction and it may be the right way to go.

In regards to null rods and such, yea unfortunately there's not much we can do here outside of switching our win condition for that game/round. If you were setting up an aristocrat win then it would probably need to switch to a exsanguinate/torment of hailfire/living death finish. Gate to Phyrexia seems ok but you'd need a complete rework to include a token package, which I feel will be better suited in something like Xiaohou Dun Control deck.

Sorry for my post being all over - wrote this quickly at work. I'd be interested to discuss this further thought! Look towards a rework of the deck soon.

Hello Savaaage

As I mentioned previously, I’ve been working with this commander now for some time. I like a lot of what you have done here, and I’m attempting to syncretize some of your list with my own.

I’m facing a very difficult meta. It is as follows

Circu, Dimir Lobotomist

Niv Mizzet the Firemind

The Gitrog Monster

Nekussar (this guy only shows up on occasion)

Breakfast Hulk

These are the regulars in my pod. Hulk basically forces everyone to play faster, and so I’ve been toying with switching to Razaketh but I don’t want to give up on Chainer just yet.

I think ooze combo belongs in the deck. I think it makes it that much more resilient. Mill it to the yard and yank out ooze— you’re golden. Any less than four opponents will have to scoop. It also doesn’t lose to null rod. It also gives you walking ballista, which is another way to win with infinite mana.

With ooze, a turn 2-3 win is possible, especially with reanimate.

The guys I’m playing with are a bunch of hosers. To be fair, so am I. It’s highly competitive. They’re going to bring leyline, null rod, cursed totem— anything that will eff me up, they’ll bring it. I have to play around this stuff.

I think the deck needs a thoughtseize more than it needs a waste not. Waste not is highly conditional, but thoughtseize can not only pester some of the better decks like hulk but it gives you critical information on your most threatening opponent.

I think ad nauseam is viable. I don’t really like Erebos and arguel. I think another tutor plus ad nauseum would be more desirable, especially if ooze combo is added.

It seems like crucible isn’t great in multiplayer. I could be wrong, but it seems a little slow. So does solemn simulacrum. Why not a few more cheap rocks instead? Maybe culling the weak/ cabal ritual if you are worried about artifact liability and or null rod? I almost like guardian beast over solemn, even though I criticized him before. He does stop the smash approach to artifacts, just not the rod. Solemn nets another land, but how often is that just the sweet spot? I feel like a lot of the time he is meh. Could be wrong.

Geth is also kind of a pipe dream in my meta. I don’t get a late game usually unless several people whiff their own combos. I also find that graveyards are crazy hated in our format.

Here’s my thought:

Grave hate? Hope for rings combo.

Null rod? Get the ooze.

Stars align? Go for autocrat win. I find the blood artist win effing hard to pull off, but I’ve been using gravecrawler. Autocrat is better, and doesn’t have zombie conditional. Although it does require chainer.

I think one artifact reviver card is enough. The myr seems best. Need a piece? Tutor the myr and sac him or skull clamp etc. free up those other slots for cards that can speed up the deck or neuter the other guy.

So with all that rambling in mind, what do you think? How do we keep this deck competitive in a meta with hulk, frog, and circu breathing down your neck?

I have more thoughts, but this seems like enough for now.

Hey OscarGoldman! First of all, apologies on the lack of replies, I've been out of the MTG environment for sometime, but was able to return recently. I think Sidisi as commander would be a much better fit for the nooze combo and would be an overall faster deck for your meta. However, I've played some games and do confirm I need to change some cards again.

Some of the outstanding cuts that I'm seeing at this point are:

Bloodchief Ascension <> Font of Agonies (Bloodchief takes too long to come online or gets destroyed before it gains value)

Geth, Lord of the Vault <> Vilis, Broker of Blood (too much mana investment, which I'd rather use to develop board or for chainer activations)

Junk Diver <> Yawgmoth's Will

Mirage Mirror <> Reanimate (Same idea as geth, mirage mirror can sometimes do cute plays but most of the time it's a win more card)

Jet Medallion <> Gilded Lotus (at most Jet will reduce 1-4 mana per turn, which is equivalent to how much gilded lotus generates, and jet doesn't impact chainer activations).

Charcoal Diamond <> Not sure on this cut may keep as is as additional rocks don't hurt.

Maybe even adding Nooze to here. With Nooze, are we going the full package? ie: mikaeus+trike+phyrexian devo+ballista? Or just walking ballista+phyrexian?

Savaaage

I agree with all of your recent edits except Imp's Mischief - It counters counterspells (although as you said yourself, blue isn't prevalent) redirect removal, redirect extra turn spells, etc... Very powerful versatile card. Yes it's a bit conditional, but the + side IMO far outweighs the negative.

No Grave Titan for nim deathmantle or just overall goodness?

Where is your artifact and enchantment hate, as without it, you are shit out of luck in certain matchups since you can't always rely on politics. The below isn't extensive but is meant to give you an idea of the better removal you have access to. What you choose is up to you.

EDIT: Just realized you have 0-Stone but as someone above commented, artifact hate stops it, so you might want to consider another option (as well, or to even replace it perhaps, dependent on how much artifact hate you face). Meteor golem is nice too, glad to see its in here.

I would love to see a list of combos the deck has. So far I see...

1. Mike + Trike
2. Basalt + Rings + Top
3. Coffers + temple + rings (and swamps/urborg)
4. Grave titan combo if you add it

No Necropotence ? I see very little draw, you maybe consider a Read the Bones or even a Syphon Mind

I know you just added it in but Font of Agonies seems weak, I would replace it with some more card draw or interaction. Perhaps an Infernal Darkness to Anvil of Bogardan to go with chains as another wincon? It also helps fuel your GY strategies and provides virtual card advantage.

Your land count seems low, even with all the ramp. Be sure to let us know how cutting the lands in your recent update has played out.

Profet93

Thanks for checking out the deck and for the comments. I greatly appreciate it! I'll start from the top:

Imp's Mischief - The card is great without question and can be game winning in the right situation, however, I think it's a much better fit in a Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed control deck, which can easily recur it every turn. As I have to rely on XHD being in the 99, the value of Imp's Mischief is lower for Chainer. I'll never tutor for it and end up having to draw into it. I've also had situations where it sat in my hand being unable to cast because people are casting non target sorceries/instants or taking non targetable extra turns XD. Another aspect is that the card became fairly infamous in my meta and people were aware of the tricks I could do with Imp's Mischief or Sudden Spoiling . When I was leaving 2-3 mana open it was fairly telegraphed. Over time I may add it back in as I love the tricky unexpected stuff in black (Imps, Sudden Spoiling, Darkness )

In regards to Grave Titan , the slot was contested by three cards. Originally I was running Sengir Autocrat , which in my opinion is superior to both Grave Titan and Wurmcoil Engine . I figured I needed some additional lifegain as I encountered some life issues in the previous game sessions. Wurmcoil Engine fits the similar niche as Grave Titan and with Nim Deathmantle Zombie clause, allows for Gravecrawler loops. Wurmcoil containing Lifelink was what made me choose it over Grave Titan. With Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Ashnod's Altar , we could make infinite deathtouch or lifelink tokens + infinite mana. I've spent most of the day today thinking about this slot and ultimately I think I'm going back to Sengir Autocrat . It has better synergy with Skullclamp and Razaketh, the Foulblooded AND most importantly breaks parity on Chainer/Altars/Aristocrats/ETC. We end up netting and 1 life as opposed to Grave Titan or Wurmcoil Engine .

About Artifact/Enchantment hate: I chose Oblivion Stone over Nevinyrral's Disk due to how many mana doubling cards I'm running. This allows me to play and active O-stone on the same turn, which is less telegraphed than NDisk. Also it doesn't suffer requiring to untap+survive a turn on a table to use, which makes it superior in my eyes. If I had to add another card it would be All Is Dust most likely cutting Sheoldred, Whispering One . Time will tell if this is required but at this state I'm unsure yet. In a dreamland we can 'theoretically' deal all perms with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Meteor Golem + Ashnod's Altar + Nim Deathmantle .

Necropotence is there :). I do like Syphon Mind but I'm running Night's Whisper + Sign in Blood as they're cheaper to use. I'd rather be developing/Controling board w/ 4cmc cards. Nights Whisper+Sign in Blood could be subbed for something else. I'll test em as is for now.

I'm agreeing with you on Font of Agonies the longer I have it in my deck. Anvil of Bogardan is a great suggestion.

The three lands that I removed could be detrimental but I'm not sure. I'll need to test it live, but I've been goldfishing for hours every day throughout the week. 30 lands seems fine with the recent minor rebuild.

Savaaage

Thank you for getting back to me regarding my comments, it is much appreciated!

There's a reason Imp's Mischief is infamous! :D But I understand where you're coming from. Its just a pet card of mine and I recomend it to every black deck because it just works (at least in my meta). It sucks not being able to cast it at times and people being aware. I have a similar issue in my meta, although not as prevalent, I still love it <3

Interesting points, I never noticed that with Wurmcoil Engine and your argument for breaking parity with Sengir Autocrat makes sense. The question is, how often, how reliablely can you assemble that to the point where you don't pay 4 mana for a measly card that doesn't do much on it's own. If you had more tutors, I could understand it. I personally like Wurmcoil Engine more because the life link and deathtouch but it depends. Wurmcoil is also an artifact which has been relevant (good and bad) at times.

Regarding artifact hate, I completely agree. I just wanted to show you additional options as Karn, the Great Creator has been a thorn in my side recently. All is dust > Sheolded would be a good test swap but as you said, time will tell if thats needed.

For card draw, I'm surprised I missed necro in the deck, oops. Syphon Mind is really powerful, draw 4, each opponent discards a card. I understand you would like to set up more of a boardstate, but I feel with the overall lack of draw, syphon mind should not be overlooked. Getting opponent's expensive cards in the yard is "setting up" in a way. But your point is valid.

Profet93 It wouldn't allow me to edit my previous comment :( I took to long writing the post XD.

I'll sit down and make a list of some combos. An easy one that comes to mind is Buried Alive + Living Death . Depending on our starting hands and stuff, if we have some ramp, tutor, and buried alive or living death we can start going off.

String would look something like:

Buried Alive >>fetching>> Pitiless Plunderer + Razaketh, the Foulblooded + Sengir Autocrat . Play Living Death on current turn or next turn.

Sac 3 Serf Tokens + Sengir Autocrat to Razaketh, the Foulblooded , which generates 4 treasure tokens. Searching for something like: Dark Ritual + Mana Crypt + Blood Artist + Viscera Seer . These cards could be anything but the idea is that now we can cast Chainer from mana crypt+treasure token mana, use the remaining 1 black mana to cast Dark Ritual to bring back Sengir Autocrat , sac 1 Serfs, searching for literally any card you want. Cast Viscera Seer +Sac remaining 2 Serfs to Seer, which gives us another Chainer activation, to bring back autocrat. 2 more serf sacs to seer and we cast Blood Artist . The string is fairly flexible and only requires 14 life assuming we play this at the start of the game. Something I thought of quickly on the spot and not optimized but hopefully gives you the idea of what we can do.

Profet93

I had Aetherflux Reservoir in the deck before and would like to get it back in due to the combo with Bolas's Citadel and Sensei's Divining Top . What would you suggest to cut for it? I'm leaning towards Oppression :/.

Savaaage

I commented on 2 chainer decks similar things so I got lost in the notifications. Yes! I would consider that a strong synergy unless you can go infinite, but nevertheless, I am looking forward to your updated description.

Regarding your cuts for the Bolas Flux Top combo, I would cut Solemn Simulacrum . Nice guy but better in decks that cant ramp hard or draw hard like red and white.

Profet93 I like Solemn Simulacrum too much to cut it xD. I think I'll test cutting Oppression for the time being as it paints a target on my back and also sometimes slows down my gameplan.

Savaaage

If not solemn then yes oppression. The discard can be nice but anvil filled that slot so you're good. If you get a large target on yourself then yes.

+1 for the name, made me laugh. Great looking deck too! May I suggest Cremate for some spice plus grave hate with a cantrip stapled to it?

Seems a little too unimpactful no?

Honestly it's not a good card, just makes some spicy plays happen, like exiling Labman after someone does the Breakfast combo or something like that. Literally the only reason to put it in would be for the funnies.

Dumgoldfish124 Glad the name made you laugh XD. Cremate is a great cantrip, however, I'm leaning with Profet93 on this one. For future replacements I'll probably be looking into more tutors/fast ramp/better etb creatures etc. I'll have some time to test this current iteration of deck over the weekend. Hopefully going to 30 lands doesn't screw me too often.

I took out Yawgmoth's Will and Mox Opal for 2x Snow-Covered Swamp . Not sure if this is the right call or the right move but I'm not sure. What yall think? Should we stay at 32-33 lands or go down to 30 for more gas?