@ thewyzman all decks have some form of weakness. In this case, this is a creature deck. Anything that can take a creature off the board is a bane to this deck. But, I did a search for you. Went on magic the gathering, typed in "can't sacrifice" into the text box under advanced search tab. A list of the most relevant. Elephant Grass, Assault Suit, Halls of Mist, Peacekeeper, and Tajuru Preserver. You can also try "can't attack" under your search options. Blazing Archon would be on that list with Ghostly Prison, Norn's Annex and Prison Term. Last bit of advice on dealing with Thraximundar and probably the most important. You are playing commander. There are other players. Convince them to deal with him for you. That is the valuable advice of any I can give.

Forgot one suggestion Darksteel Colossus take out It That Betrays

thewyzman: The other thing is Thraximundar is A) a 7 drop commander and B) isn't very often played C) even fewer decks that can consistently third turn him to start hosing players. Not to mention there are at least 4 instant speed removal answers to him in the deck.

@AKBZ: You can compensate for weaknesses. in the case of a deck like Mayael, You may be able to remove a creature, But the deck can easily recover from the situation... Thrax is about as fast as mayael in terms of set up. Unless you play against bad mayael decks.

also, since you didnt read any comments most of your addition choices have already got a solid answer to them...

Lurking - Maelstrom doesnt use it in his build. He focuses on mayael.

ANY BFZ eldrazi - Other than void winnower they where disappointing and nothing this deck is looking for.

@SeriosSkies I have read all of the comments. I have also read his mission statements. This deck is to demonstrate the effectiveness of Mayael the Anima and the methods to play an effective Mayael the Anima. Let's go through each card, and you tell me how my cards are wrong or contrary to his mission statement. Lurking Predators it is Mayael the Anima in enchantment form. It provides a scry effect, it allows him to cheat out creatures, it manages the top of his library, it is harder to remove, it gives his creatures "haste" because it cheated them out before his turn. Everything that he is trying to accomplish with his deck is in this card. And it provides a backup strategy in case someone shuts down Mayael the Anima. Explain to me why a plan B is a bad thing? Conduit of Ruin he is power 5 or greater, so Mayael the Anima can hit him, he allows your creature spells to be casted for 2 less (if it is the first), and he can set up your next big drop which is top deck managing. So, he allows to create a response by bringing an eldrazi, he is allowing a form of mana ramp for his creatures in hand, and he can brought out if needed. Which part of the card went against the mission statement of this deck again? Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger now this card and Darksteel Colossus were recommended over Kozilek, Butcher of Truth and It That Betrays because the are indestructible. If he needs to Wrath of God the field, these guys survive and are now the unquestioned authority on the field. I imagine sometimes he Mayael the Anima in response to a board wipe hoping to find Avacyn, Angel of Hope to save it. These are not bad substitutes. I recommend Kozilek, Butcher of Truth be taken out because his hard cast ability might take away a potential bomb for his commander while Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger does not and can remove a threat from the board. Those last two are really personal choice on my part. The first two were what I thought everything he was trying to demonstrate Mayael the Anima can do when the proper elements are put into place. I did not make my choices lightly. My arguments are not without merit.As for your comment about my comment on Thraximundar, your 100% right. This deck has responses. He did not draw into them and got unlucky. But none of my choices to deal with him do not have merit in sideboard. And, this is a creature deck. Any wrath effects, any spot removal, anything that deals with a creature deck somehow is going to be this decks bane. Don't dismiss the comment because you think my recommendations are bad. Help him with his problem, instead of shooting ideas down.

@SeriosSkies As for Void Winnower, what is it that makes this card any better than Iona, Shield of Emeria in terms of being unfair? If there is one card that goes against the mission statement of this deck from BFZ, this is it. Me personally, there are better things to ban. Necropotence cough cough. I don't see a problem with either, but you seem eager to support a card that flies in the face of everything fair, to condemn cards that epitomize all that MaelstromHobo was trying to show with this deck.

@AKBZ: "Dies to removal" is an awful mission statement to have. since thats ANY permanent decks weakness. not just creature based strats.

Im not telling you how its wrong to think lurking is good for the deck and i never said your recommendations where bad. Neither did Maelstrom, BTW i just paraphrased everything he said earlier about your recommendations. But when you're the 10th person to mention it (This is not the decks first string of comments), it has the effect of someone asking a question that was just answered.

A powerful effect like limiting what your opponent can do IS fair in terms of EDH, the difference? One shuts you out completely for 6 mana. The other? Usually Just prevents you from blocking with half your dudes before getting hit by spot removal. Theyre drastically different.

But his comment was that Thraximundar was removing my board state. I reminded him this is a creature based deck, and anything that does remove a creature on your sided is going to hurt you. Which part of my comment did not convey that message? As for my recommendations, Lurking Predators was addressed once, and he actually liked it in the deck. Didn't really address why he took it out. As for Void Winnower took out my Karametra, God of Harvests and counted all the relevant things. Even number of cards 31, number of green 48, number of white 14. Not seeing much difference when it comes to shutting me down.

His own deck 30 even, 18 white, 25 green, 8 red. Seems like Void Winnower shuts down more of this deck than Iona, Shield of Emeria. And you are still claiming one is not the other with a different name?

@AKBZ: But i was referencing how you think indestructible is superior to creatures that have actual relevant ETB's over indestructible and literally nothing else going for them and how wraths kill creatures.

He DID address it, he wanted to focus on mayael.....

I didnt realize ALL other decks where Karametra. as for differences. With Void winnower i lock 50% of your karametra out. With Iona if i name green i lock out 77%. thats a huge difference. Sadly not all decks are Your karametra. Void winnower doesnt make all the mono decks auto lose.

@ SeriosSkies 50% vs 75% is no difference in shutting out. It still shuts me out. It would shut out this deck. Plus, if you pick green and are playing against players that are running white, blue, or black, you don't shut them out. But, Void Winnower can still shut them out at probably the same percent that it is shutting me out. If you pick up one of your EDH decks that has 2 or more colors and do a count, tell me you don't get the same number that Void Winnower shuts down. As for indestructible, the cards that I recommend he take out have limited uses Regrowth one card, one time. Assuming a non shuffling effect of graveyard. Mother of Runes protects a creature. Can't be targeted by commander. One land his deck can get by with one less land. The other two have been discussed. Only one has an ETB effect, and you have to cast him. The major weakness of most creature decks are wraths. Thraximundar was doing his job. He was in a bad matchup. All I did, was remind him what he was playing. The only thing we know was that Thraximundar was removing his board. We don't even know what the situation was. One last thing about Lurking Predators, A LOT of comments were made about a lack of Sol Ring. It's now in the deck. Nothing is in stone. Opinions about cards change all the time.

@SeriosSkies looked at three different decks and I counted at least 30 even cards in each one with some getting up to 40. 50%+ of there deck would be shut down. That seems to be an average, which makes sense because you are shutting out half the numbers that you can cast. You still trying to tell me it is not Iona, Shield of Emeria except any deck can play with him? By the way, I still think they are fair cards. 100% not worth banning.

@AKBZ & _SeriosSkies_: Here's the difference I see between Iona, Shield of Emeria and Void Winnower. When you cast Iona, you have a very good idea of what sort of plays you'll be stopping your opponent from making. deck, for example? If you choose white, you've likely taken out their removal. Void Winnower, on the other hand, is less predictable in what it stops. Other than their commander, you can't be entirely sure which of their spells it will affect. While Winnower may be shutting down a greater number of cards, you're not selecting a particular type of card (which makes things more fair, imho).

I feel like Kozilek, Butcher of Truth would give me more mileage than Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger most of the time. Is Ulamog he a threat? Absolutely. Is he a bigger threat than Annihilator 4? I would say not. Same story for It That Betrays over Darksteel Colossus. I'd just rather have the Annihilator over Indestructible.

Worldly Tutor and Lurking Predators, while fine choices in other Mayael builds, just aren't what I'm looking for in my play experience. I certainly wouldn't discourage others from running them though. I've had great success with Lurking Predators but found it a bit of a game-warper (becoming the only card that "matters" once it hits the table). I'd rather shine the spotlight on Mayael.

Conduit of Ruin is a great card I've been warming up to recently. I certainly intend to play test it.

@thewyzman: I've never had to play against Thraximundar, but if you're going the token route I'd suggest you run something like Awakening Zone or From Beyond over Dragon Fodder. Dragon Fodder may help you stall, but does nothing on its own to advance your end game. Awakening Zone will help you ramp to your win-cons (or, in the case of From Beyond, also search them out) while simultaneously running interference. Verdant Force may be effective as well.

I'd also recommend you try out Blazing Archon. He's a good Mayael target in any game, but is especially hard on creatures like Thrax that have to attack to generate an effect.

Lastly, I'd run some graveyard recursion like Sun Titan or Greenwarden of Murasa. They won't shut down Thrax on their own, but they'll ease the pain.

@ MaelstromHobo thanks for getting back to me. Would like to start by saying sorry for fighting with SeriosSkies. I don't like being called for all intents and purpose "stupid". I just reread the comments and I didn't see any responses from him or her at other people that match what I got. I was angry and was not going to back down from him or her. Sorry for the fight. I also would like to apologize to thewyzman. You wanted MaelstromHobo's thoughts, not mine. After rereading, I came off as an ass on that last part. I read your comment and I thought "what kind of help is he expecting to get when all he says is I keep getting Grave Pacted on a stick"? and thought it was an appropriate response. It was not. As for your comments, I think annihilator is great, but as the game progresses, i believe it loses it's potency. More things are out there, and hard choices are not as likely to be made. Plus, it's multiplayer. Annihilator is more of a 1v1 thing. Personal opinion. I think indestructible holds out no matter what stage of the game you are in and can survive multiple players. But these were recommendations. Like I said, I had typed it out before, but preview comment was not working. As for Void Winnower and Iona, Shield of Emeria I think they are one in the same. Would gladly still play both though. One might be a grenade and the other a well placed bomb, but they still get the door I want gone out of the way. One last card to suggest. I know that haste has been interesting sometimes and then other times "eh". But, would like your thoughts on Cyclops of Eternal Fury. Before any one comments, I am only interested in MaelstromHobo's thoughts. After the fight, I just want to talk to the person who posted the deck.

Hunting Grounds?

I'm re-hashing my own Mayael deck and invite you -and anyone- to comment on a number of cards. I'll list them in a comment there and tag you, Hobo, so I don't poach conversation here.

For The Nayan Horde!

Commander / EDH thewyzman

SCORE: 4 | 20 COMMENTS | 1922 VIEWS

We where fighting? O.o

I thought we where arguing statistics.

On the plus side you linked my old account that i was sure didnt exist anymore...now ive been trying to get back into it.

@MaelstromHobo: I still have a general idea of what im locking out with Void Winnower. it just runs a different axis. But every game ive ever used Void winnowerr he didnt just completely stop someone from playing .sure it stopped one or two spells. but they where still in the game. where nine times out of ten Iona, Shield of Emeria just told a player they lost for playing against me.

Also the Bribery Argument. "Can you beat it if its Bribery'd out of your deck?". Iona is a "No" most of the time. where Void winnower doesnt even phase me.

@AKBZ: I like haste a lot. It's the main reason why Xenagos, God of Revels is in here. But I don't feel like Cyclops of Eternal Fury does quite enough to merit his inclusion. I really wish Urabrask the Hidden had 5 power - he'd be an auto-include if Mayael could grab him. Expect for Avacyn, Angel of Hope granting a single keyword often doesn't provide enough utility to secure a deck slot.

That said, I've seen variations of this deck that run (almost) exclusively creatures like Cyclops of Eternal Fury, Windbrisk Raptor, Nylea, God of the Hunt...basically, creatures that keep giving their team a new keyword. It's a pretty fun idea (hey look, all my dudes have indestructible, hexproof, lifelink, and vigilance!) but tends to be fairly fragile and most definitely for casual tables.

@thewyzman: You know, I had written Hunting Grounds off initially because I found it hard to reach threshold early enough in the game to matter. But, as the deck has been shifting toward using more instants and Mind Stone type cards, It's probably worth another look.

@AKBZ: Added Conduit of Ruin and removed a land for Fiery Confluence. Good suggestions.

hmmm... No Illusionist's Bracers? Id does the same as Rings of Brighthearth and reguires no mana to activate. Not that versatile, but still super good with mayael i think.

And have you considered Flameshadow Conjuring? I have been succesfull with it and Serra Avatar.

If your running Avacyn you should run Novablast Wurm, the Garruk planeswalkers to play green creatures from your hand, produce 6/6 wurms, and manage mana, as well as Quicksilver Amulet, Primal SurgeWild Evocation and other cards that let you bring out the big boys without paying mana. Omen Machineand Gate to the AEther are awesome in a Mayael deck if your playing plenty of big creatures.

how bout' Vexing Shusher?

So first of all, absolutely love the deck. But I'm a bit puzzled not to find any Command Beacon. Your commander is expensive and likely to be removed at least once, it seems like this could do a great deal to you (while comboing with Titania).

No wait, I'm an idiot, she's actually cheap XD Nevermind me. Though it may still be worth it.