Excellent write up on this deck. I can't even tell you how much I appreciate you purposely leaving out Iona. She is a very potent card that would fit well into your deck type, yet it has to be one of the biggest wet blankets in the history of Magic.
Your mana base is very good. I don't, however, see the utility in including the God cards you have in the deck. They may very well work for all I know (since I haven't play tested your deck), yet my initial reaction is that it would be difficult to consistently utilize the cards to their full potential (owing to sometimes having a lack of devotion). Again, I might be wrong, and it's a fun looking deck.
December 14, 2014 12:49 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #4
Really nice deck. However, I'm surprised that there is no Mayael's Aria in this...
December 14, 2014 2:34 p.m.
KindredDiscovery says... #5
@Hallowed_Titan & TheHroth: Thanks! Glad you're getting some use out of it :)
@llamaglama01: Sol Ring is always on the fence. It's been in here before, with mixed success, but I think my mana base is strong enough now that the deck could support some colorless ramp. So, here's the question I pose to you: what would you take out? I'm pretty adamant on keeping 40 lands in the deck. Any less usually feels too slim.
As for Arid Mesa, I intend to run the remaining 5 fetch lands once they get reprinted and the price drops. The 4 I have so far pull so much weight, and have synergy with so many cards here, that they're probably the most important lands in the deck.
@moffotto: Thanks for the compliments. You are correct in your assessment that the gods aren't "online" all the time, which is a bit of a downer. However, the biggest challenge this deck has had over the years is getting playable opening hands. In the past I've had to mulligan hard, which can really hurt. I've worked really hard to limit that kind of play experience, especially since this is a deck that I frequently lend out to new players. Adding in the gods has really lowered the curve, and it gives you something very substantial to cast while waiting to reach that critical 6-mana threshold. Go ahead and open some other Mayael decks on this site. I have yet to find one with a lower average CMC than this one. I've worked really hard to get to that point, but it's meant making some sacrifices--such as being able to utilize the gods to their full potential. Call it a calculated loss.
@FAMOUSWATERMELON: Thanks! I don't really like alternate win conditions. so I've left Mayael's Aria out. I prefer stomping faces with ridiculous creatures :)
December 15, 2014 7:08 p.m.
I had always thought that someone should make a thoughtful Mayael deck. Most are just him and fricking Eldrazi and Worldspine Wurm and such. +1
December 20, 2014 9:38 p.m.
A few things from me: I run my own Mayael deck seen here, Rompin' Stompin' Big'uns and I've got a few things to note here:
Elvish Piper is beyond nuts if left unchecked. Play all your fatties for ? Yes please.
Quicksilver Amulet is another fantastic cheat-in card.
Utvara Hellkite is broken when coupled with Where Ancients Tread and/or Trostani, Selesnya's Voice.
Speaking of WAT, why not use both? WAT and Stalking Vengeance? I often feel like SV isn't as good because you don't want your creatures to die... you don't want it to be a useful card, right? WAT works on every successful Mayael activation... every single one!
One fringe card I'm toying with now is Gyre Sage because she'll grow big and become a mana dork tapping for or more.
...and yeah, Godsire is ridiculous. Period. Once he hits the battlefield it'll make any opponent want more wrath/removal.
Ancient Grudge is great artifact hate for the flashback.
Spearbreaker Behemoth is a necessity if you're focus is surviving wraths.
Elderscale Wurm says I won't die.
Prima what's wrong with Worldspine Wurm? Lol. That, plus cards like Armada Wurm just mean Value in getting more off of one card. Giant Adephage, like Utvara Hellkite = lulz, kill me or wrath my coming swarm.
December 22, 2014 1:58 p.m.
CTRLurself says... #9
There's a lot of cards that you're running that I found under-whelming in my Mayael deck:
Tier 1 - Mayael the Chubby Chaser Playtest
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 2 | 0 COMMENTS | 841 VIEWSbut I'm building to try and tune it to a competitive level of play.
Notably:
--MindStone should be Farseek - it's better to have a shockland than a colorless mana and possible draw, that dies to a lot of boardwipes
--Rings of Brighthearth should probably be Illusionist's Bracers - it costs the same to cast/equip, but you only pay the 5 mana once. You can always re-equip (but only at sorcery)... I found doubling most abilities wasn't that helpful, and pretty much only Knight of the Reliquary a couple times, but usually Mayael herself. Only paying the 2 extra, once, saved me a lot of mana.
--I'd drop Veteran Explorer for either Tempt with Discovery (you gotta love those non-basics) or Skyshroud Claim (to get those Shock lands) - the goal should be to out-ramp your opponent, not build their mana base at the same speed as your own.
December 23, 2014 10:59 a.m.
CTRLurself has good points, but if no Farseek (a good suggestion), other options are Naya Panorama, one of the Cluestones if you want the draw ab (Selesnya Cluestone) although, like Mind Stone, it's susceptible to sweepers, or pretty much any card with Landcycling like Elvish Aberration or Pale Recluse.
I love Illusionist's Bracers on Mayael, and even Knight of Rel, but I feel like it would still need more, like something along the lines of a Naya Battlemage.
December 23, 2014 12:47 p.m.
CTRLurself says... #11
thewyzman I'm just saying Illusionist's Bracers costs 3 each time you attach it to a creature, then unlimited uses for free, instead of costing 2 for each activation of an ability like Rings of Brighthearth.
I've found that I have a net-savings in mana spent with Bracers over Rings in terms of practical use, because I usually don't have much else that I want to double the effect of, that doesn't cost 2 mana, anyways.
Doubling Mayael the Anima's ability is the ultimate value of doubling effects in this deck. Everything else just utterly pales in comparison to looking at the top 10 cards of my library and plopping two fatties into play un-counterably.
December 23, 2014 3:43 p.m.
KindredDiscovery says... #12
@Prima: Thanks for the kind words!
@thewyzman: Elvish Piper and Quicksilver Amulet are indeed nuts if left unchecked. However, I've never had either last more than one turn on the field. Without counterspell support to protect them (the closest we have in these colors is Eight-and-a-Half-Tails), I find I have more practical 4-drops to run. Same story with Where Ancients Tread. This all may be meta-dependent though.
Utvara Hellkite and Godsire have both had starring roles in here before, but as the deck has been tightened over the years I found them to be just "more beef". That can win games sometimes, but I personally find it too samey to get much replay value.
Ancient Grudge is damn sexy though. I had kind of overlooked it.
Commander's Sphere > Selesnya Cluestone. It's not susceptible to sweepers and taps for the same kind of mana.
@CTRLurself: I think we have a very different idea of what constitutes competitive. You seem like you're building for a 1-on-1, tournament match-up. I wish you the best of luck, but my experience with EDH tournaments is that by the time Mayael has a chance to go off (maybe turn 3 at the earliest?) most truly competitive decks are trying to combo off or have set up a lock.
She really shines in competitive multiplayer though, where games are expected to last a bit longer. In that kind of situation, I think Mind Stone > Farseek. Not only is Mind Stone faster (it can tap as soon as it comes out; a land fetched with Farseek can't), but it's far more playable late game. I've had Farseek in here before, but I can't emphasize how much more mileage I get out of Mind Stone. You need the extra draw far more often than you need a specific color.
Rings of Brighthearth is far superior to Illusionist's Bracers in my opinion. The bracers pretty much only go on Mayael. The Rings? Fetch lands. Planeswalkers. Knight of the Reliquary. Captain Sisay. Crystal Ball. Weathered Wayfarer. Slayers' Stronghold. Miren, the Moaning Well. What you are saving in mana over the course of the game you are losing in versatility. Running a deeply-entrenched strategy in multiplayer is a risky proposition. I like to be able to adapt more, and run orthogonal strategies. I whole-heartedly agree that doubling Mayael's ability is an awesome trip to super value town, but if I had to pick one, I'd go with the Rings. Every. Single. Time. There just wasn't space in the deck to run both.
I do agree with your Veteran Explorer assessment though. People keep bugging me about Sol Ring, so I think I'll try it out again.
December 23, 2014 6:44 p.m.
CTRLurself says... #13
@MaelstromHobo I think where our decks differ really is our mechanism for getting creatures on to the battlefield.
You mention wanting mana-efficient things, while I'm looking for way to cheat everything out - which means I run the most effective creatures I can, regardless of mana cost, because my version's goal is to never cast anything that costs more than 5 mana. I built mine for multi-player games (infinite combos are not allowed where I play), but there are a lot of Control and Stax players so I built the deck to mess them up (Magmatic Force and Gruul Ragebeast to keep creatures down, Possibility Storm for the chaos, Hellkite Tyrant to steal their stuff, etc), but I will lose to pure-aggro decks (which almost nobody runs).
I cut Captain Sisay simply because I don't want my creatures in my hand, unless I have a Quicksilver Amulet in play, because then I'd have to "cast" it, instead of cheating it out through one of my many mechanisms to do so.
Btw; I think the reason you don't get value out of Quicksilver Amulet is because not many of your creatures are the "Kill on site" kind. If Quicksilver gets even a single activation in my deck, the creature has to be dealt with before people look at the amulet itself anymore. Evasion is a powerful thing - basically every creature in my version is Trample, Flying, Stax(hate) or Annihilator - which means that if it swings people get wrecked, because there's very little that you can chump block easily...
tl;dr I think the disagreement on Illusionist's Bracers vs Rings of Brighthearth comes down to you cast creatures, vs me cheating everything into play.
Totally unrelated: my 1v1 commander of choice is actually Phenax, God of Deception - I can turn 4 mill somebody out without any infinite combo required. Nut draw is a T3 kill (but that is infinite). Usual game is 7 turns.
December 24, 2014 1:32 p.m.
KindredDiscovery says... #14
@CTRLurself: That kind of build is fun, and it sure can deliver some haymakers. This deck used to be a lot like that. 30 "Oh god kill it now" creatures and a handful of cards to cheat them out. It rocked casual games, but when I moved to a new LGS it repeatedly fell short. The group was, while not hyper competitive, a whole level above me in their builds. They played robust suites of removal, and they knew how to hit my deck in its weak points. Specifically, my cheater cards. It wasn't a question of if, but rather when, Mayael or Elvish Piper were going to get locked down or eat a kill spell. The strategy was just too linear to be successful against a seasoned opponent.
I'm of the opinion that your deck should be enhanced by your commander, not rely on it wholly. You should still be able to get your fatties on the field even if Mayael develops a Darksteel Mutation. Contingency plans are an absolute necessity. So many crazy things can happen over the course of a commander game that you can never, ever, rely on Plan A sealing the game. I've found that casting your creatures the old-fashioned way is a pretty reliable Plan B.
The deck doesn't deliver as many blowout turns as it used to. But you know what? It runs like a top, and it wins far more consistently. I'm pretty happy with that.
Note that I'm not advocating against playing cheater cards. They just don't suit my goals with the deck any longer. The slots they used to take up are now filled with topdeck manipulation, and I've never had more fun.
December 26, 2014 2:16 p.m.
Very nice lot of thought put into it. +1. I'm still pretty fresh to deck building to figure out how a deck works I pretty much have to dissect it for quite a while but there's a lot of nice synergies there, I like that with Mayael you can practically play enormous cards for practically nothing.
January 7, 2015 6:18 a.m.
Another new set, another set that adds precious little to Mayael. Shamanic Revelation sounds good on paper but it might actually be a trap - drawing all those creatures means not cheating them in with Mayael. The life gain is nice versus non-Voltron aggro though. Other than that, Atarka, World Render might be worthwhile for a more dragon-heavy list but Fate Reforged is mostly a miss.
One thing you mention is the importance of Sac outlets to not die to thievery. Why no High Market in that case? The nearly-free activation out of a land slot seems worthwhile to me.
January 12, 2015 1:54 p.m.
KindredDiscovery says... #17
@hawk1113: Yea, its been a bit of a disappointing block for this deck (excepting fetch lands, of course). I think Dromoka, the Eternal may be playable though. Cheap, evasive, and will usually give the counters to Mayael. 5 toughness vs 3 toughness is a pretty big deal in EDH. It will take some playtesting, but running a critical mass of dragons (I think 4-5) could make it main board material.
I'm not running High Market any more because my ability to fetch specific lands is pretty reliable now. With Miren, the Moaning Well and Homeward Path I've got my bases covered.
January 13, 2015 4 p.m.
For some added pressure you can add Where Ancients Tread...every time you tap Mayael you smile a little bigger
January 14, 2015 11:11 p.m.
Any thought into putting Iona, Shield of Emeria in? Combos well with Angel of Serenity if someone counters Ionia plus yea you can bring it back to have a decent amount of annoyance.
January 19, 2015 9:27 p.m.
Sorry for double post didn't read your exclusions, because you're so heavy on creatures Karmic Guide comboed with Angel of Serenity could be interesting.
January 19, 2015 9:31 p.m.
KaladinStormblessed says... #21
A few cards that may or may not benefit you are:
Worldspine Wurm: Doesn't particularly mind being boardwiped, and is the second most massive creature ever, playing runner-up to Marit Lage of Dark Depths.
Domri Rade: His +1 isn't great for a Mayael build, but at least it doesn't say you HAVE to put it in your hand. However, his -2 and -7 are both amazing for huge creature decks.
January 22, 2015 2:52 p.m.
Domri Rade's +1 is potentially fantastic if you're running cheaters like Elvish Piper or Quicksilver Amulet.
Worldspine Wurm, much like Wurmcoil Engine I guess, is nice to have against wraths, but without cheaters the former would need to either be hit with a Mayael activation or get stuck in your hand for a hard cast? It's magical when your opponent wraths your WSW when you've got something like Warstorm Surge.
January 22, 2015 3:56 p.m.
rob_shifflett says... #23
Seeing as you have 16 Legendary creatures: Heroes' Podium Day of Destiny. It is functional and full of flavor.
Also, I really enjoy the card advantage your build provides. +1
January 30, 2015 1:10 a.m.
rob_shifflett says... #24
Sorry for the double post, but
Urborg School for Mimes Playtest
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 13 | 8 COMMENTS | 2457 VIEWSJanuary 30, 2015 1:13 a.m.
elpokitolama says... #25
How about Bogardan Hellkite instead of terrastodon? Its ability is way more interesting and do not have any drawbacks. ;)
TheHroth says... #2
This list looks great!
December 13, 2014 12:19 p.m.