_SeriosSkies_ says... #2
@FAMOUSWATERMELON: Iona locks players out of the game, is very uninteractive and isnt very fun.
Colossus kills by infect, a lot of players dislike infect. like myself. I wont put it in any decks. cant speak for the OP on that though.
Eldrazi gods are powerful, yes. but they can be dealt with easily. my guess is the OP's meta has a high power structure, like mine. The gods are strong. but comparatively to everything around them they are weak. Thus they're just another strong body you can cheat out.
April 15, 2015 9:57 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #3
Someone is going to have to explain to me how Annihilator 4 is "dealt with easily"... Iona can also be dealt with "easily".
April 15, 2015 9:59 p.m.
_SeriosSkies_ says... #4
how are you going to deal with her? ill pick that color.
Annihilator 4 is only on attack, want me to start listing ALL the cards that either A- remove him from the game B- send him to the graveyard or C- stop him from attacking? heck let me list D- cards that get rid of him just because he attacked. Saccing 4 isnt game breaking. Locking an entire color out without having to put a ton of work into it, is.
April 15, 2015 10:13 p.m.
BigBamTheory says... #5
can i ask how the theres block gods have been treating you?
i kinda like Iroas, God of Victory's blocking clause, but does he ever actually reach devotion?
the rest of the gods abilities don't seem super helpful, especially if you can't reach their devotions to actually attack with them.
i haven't had any of the gods in my list for testing.
my current list:
Ages 5 And Up. (Mayael) Playtest
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 6 | 7 COMMENTS | 1815 VIEWSApril 15, 2015 10:23 p.m.
bmorri9, I can't answer for Hobo, but in my version Iroas, God of Victory does become a creature probably 50% of the time... and even if he doesn't he's an indestructible enchantment that pisses blocking players off with that clause that can tear them limb-from-limb in a certain board state. Hell, wrath one turn (Iroas survives), use Mayael the next, swing with a big fatty before they know what to do (but block if you like, my attacking dudes are i/d due to his other clause). It hurts, and you probably don't even need Bow of Nylea to give them deathtouch to make them lethal.
April 15, 2015 10:39 p.m.
KindredDiscovery says... #7
@FAMOUSWATERMELON: I think _SeriosSkies_ sums it up nicely. Your opponents have a whole turn to deal with the Eldrazi, and even having to sac 4 permanents doesn't necessarily mean they're out of the game. They're very powerful, and they'd be unfun if they showed up every game, but thus far nobody has complained about them being unanswerable. And of course this all depends on your playgroup. I tend to play with people who want a casual game, but have the knowledge and resources to build reasonably powerful decks. We tend to be more about crafting deep interactions that play out over long games, as opposed to running straight-up value cards or executing a quick combo kill.
@bmorri9: I'd agree with thewyzman that the gods are turned on about half the time. As such, their value over the course of a typical game is very swingy, and I wouldn't recommend running all of them. I should probably be running one fewer, in fact, but there are really very few playable 4-drops that Mayael can find. Cheap beef is hugely important for keeping your curve low. Most Mayael decks I look at have less of a mana curve and more of a "wall". This makes it very difficult to get playable opening hands. The Theros gods have really helped my game run smoother, even if I'm delivering fewer haymakers. I think it's been the correct choice.
If you want to test a couple in your deck, I'd go with Xenagos, God of Revels and Iroas, God of Victory. They have a tendency to win games out of nowhere, and reach devotion the most consistently.
April 15, 2015 11:33 p.m.
Just curious, is Exploration the best 1-mana ramp card? Birds of Paradise seems more pertinent, as you have very little card draw to make Exploration relevant later than turn 2 or 3.
Other options include Burgeoning and Carpet of Flowers, good for multiplayer and control metas, respectively.
April 16, 2015 8:13 p.m.
KindredDiscovery says... #9
@Kryzis: It's in here for both its early game power and its strong interaction with a few cards later game. Crucible of Worlds + any fetch land is very strong. Courser of Kruphix or Scroll Rack interact nicely too. There are also a few other one-shot effects that get better with it on the field, like Petrified Field and Realms Uncharted.
You are correct though, more draw power is necessary to get the most out of it. I've put Regal Force on my list of things to acquire. I own a Greater Good, but I'm struggling to decide what to take out for it.
April 16, 2015 8:56 p.m.
Already gave the +1. Interesting deck!Seems well thought... Oblivion Ring ?
April 17, 2015 6:46 p.m.
Gibsonpure says... #11
Awesome deck +1 for sure. I've been tuning a Mayael deck since I got into EDH and it is my pride and joy. This list is very close to my own and I took away some great insight from your description and strategy. I will add suggestions to this thread as I play with my group as they are very competitive.
First thought Scourge of the Throne is an all-star with many of the triggered abilities and can often win a game with either Xenagos or Iroas in play
April 20, 2015 7:54 p.m.
Gibsonpure says... #12
Also Kessig Wolf Run is great. I've considered cutting it many times since it requires you to hold up mana, often draws aggression, and cannot be tutored with Captain Sisay...but it's flexibility in giving a creature evasion, and as a political card make it a staple in this deck in my opinion.
April 20, 2015 8:01 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #13
First of all I would like to say thank you so much for the thoughtful and informative Mayael the Anima primer. I have been wanting to make a EDH deck with her for some time to please my inner Timmy. Though a lot of these cards are out of my price range (I am trying to make a $5 card and under version) it provides a solid guideline to building. One thing though, what is your thoughts on Hunting Grounds? Threshold is pretty easy to obtain in EDH and if you do manage to accidentally get your large creatures in hand, it allows you to drop them in in response to your opponents spells.
April 23, 2015 11:39 p.m.
Couple of questions:
Why not Burgeoning? Exploration is so good early, having essentially 2 (burgeoning arguably better in certain circumstances) in the 100 seems reasonable. Especially with Oracle and Courser.
Fwiw, Archetype of Endurance seems better than Lightning Greaves in this deck. It follows your line of reasoning on Stalking Vengeance: it's better to put the effect on a body Mayael can hit. Since your game plan is to hold mana up for an end of turn activation on Mayael, most of the time haste is pointless. Even on Mayael, she's probably not coming out and being used the same turn anyways. The argument that it makes your opponents scramble for answers seems weak. That's not really a bad thing.
A lot of choices seemed centered around Captain Sisay (e.g. Miren over Homeward Path which can protect against reanimation and doesn't require the mana investment), which to be fair I think is an awesome player in this deck and am excited to try in my build. I'm just curious though how often you actually get her out considering there doesn't appear to be many ways to grab her. Which is fine (I don't run tooth-and-nail, defense of the heart, or natural order for similar reasons that you don't), but if that's the case, then why run Sisay (she does tutor after all)? I assume the answer is that tutoring for utility (i.e. lands, eight-and-a-half-tails, etc.) isn't the same thing as tutoring for the same win cons over and over, in which case: have you thought about running survival of the fittest/fauna shaman not for your win cons, but to swap out fatties for utility creatures?
Have you considered City of Traitors and/or Eye of Ugin?
To your comment on Regal Force, I think Soul of the Harvest is better. Not only does it have built in evasion, but its effect seems more relevant when you need it. If Regal Force hits big in this deck, it's probably just a win-more. Whereas Soul of the Harvest can help you rebuild after a wipe and worst-case, is a 6/6 trampler.
Have you thought about Soul of New Phyrexia? Since the gameplan is to activate Mayael at the end of turn, you'll have mana up for it to avoid a wipe.
Really happy to see you're running Crystal Ball, always thought it was underrated in Mayael, but why not Mana Crypt?
Have you tried Oath of Druids? It's less spike than I think you're going for with this build, but seems like a fun card and probably asymmetrical a good majority of the time in your favor while still maintaining a fun level of randomness.
Aura shards over some of your enchantment removal?
Lastly, why not Life from the Loam? Granted, this helps warrant the inclusion of burgeoning and exploration in my build, but it seems like it could be great with your top deck manipulators that don't shuffle. Also, it helps turn on Oath of Druids. :)
Anyways, love your build, looking forward to incorporating many of your choices. Cards that seem weak to me: Dromoka's Command (honestly, seems like there are creatures Mayael hits on with better abilities than this), Garruk Wildspeaker, the Walls.
April 29, 2015 2:35 a.m.
KindredDiscovery says... #16
@indiefan:Nothing wrong with Burgeoning, I just don't have one. It's been added to my short list.
Archetype of Endurance is a very different card from Lightning Greaves for a couple reasons. First, and most importantly, mana cost. My average CMC right now is 4.16, which is a good shake lower than every other Mayael deck on this site. The Stalking Vengeance argument isn't quite as applicable when the CMC of the spells you're trying to compare is so different. Second, haste comes up often enough that it's a very precious keyword to me. You don't always have the luxury of activating Mayael at the end of your opponent's turn, not to mention that there are times when you might want to hard cast a threat. In fact, I've been phasing in more haste enablers as time goes on.
Also, while I hate the "dies to removal" argument, I think the circumstances here are unique enough to lend it merit. This guy provokes a very specific kind of kill spell--board wipes. It's pretty much the only reliable way to deal with him. Forcing a Doom Blade is one thing (and as you said, not necessarily bad), but forcing a Wrath of God is playing with fire. And considering that you're never really sure when Mayael might pull this guy off the top, he becomes even more of a liability. If he surprises you as your only choice in the top 5 cards, your only options are to put your board at risk or put him on the bottom (wasting 6 mana and a turn of board development in the process). Granted, this is all worst case scenario, but these are not theoretical. They happened enough that I decided to pull him out of the deck.
I'd guess that Sisay comes up in about 25% of my games. Topdeck filtering, while not so powerful as tutoring, provides enough consistency that you can dig for what you want reliably. So no, I haven't considered running any other tutors; it's just not the game I want to play with this deck. Sisay gets a pass because she's slow, removable, and most importantly novel. Folks usually don't mind when she hits the table because of the elegant interactions and synergies she promotes (and, as you correctly surmised, she mostly just grabs me utility). Oh, and while she has made the legendary supertype a valid criteria for card inclusion, I'd probably still be running 20+ legendary cards without her. Wizards likes to represent their important characters on powerful cards.
City of Traitors and Eye of Ugin seem a bit too narrow for this build.
You raise a fair point about Regal Force being a win-more card. Soul of the Harvest seems like it would draw me cards more often when it matters. I hadn't really considered it like that before.
You are spot on with your argument for Soul of New Phyrexia. I'll be subbing him in for Spearbreaker Behemoth.
No Mana Crypt because it's $175 :). The ABUR duals were hard enough for me to get, and my copies are in a "well-loved" condition.
Oath of Druids seems like it has a high potential to backfire. It will require playtesting before I could say for sure whether or not I like it.
Aura Shards, while potent at times, was a bit unreliable for me. Too often my opponents killed it before it got to do much, or any, work. Spot removal ended up being more effective and led to more satisfying gameplay.
I love Life from the Loam. I've got a copy sleeved up and ready to go, just as soon as I get my hands on the last 5 fetches. Until then I'm running Nature's Lore.
Dromoka's Command is really good. Like, "best removal in the deck" good. 2-for-1's are not to be underestimated. Garruk Wildspeaker is awesome ramp with stuff like Ancient Tomb, stymies aggro, and breaks up late-game gridlocks. No individual ability is a silver bullet, but he works well on so many axes that he's saved my butt more times than I can count. The walls are certainly a more off-beat inclusion, and all I can say is that you need to play with them to fully appreciate the hole they fill in this deck. That's not to say they're irreplaceable, but I'd need to hear a really strong argument to take them out.
Thank you so much for the comment, it's been really constructive. Good luck with your own Mayael project!
April 29, 2015 5:33 p.m.
Couple questions:
Regarding Crucible of Worlds and potentially Life from the Loam, do you get lands in the yard often? I don't have any self-mill/delve stuff in my deck, so I wouldn't even need the land-rebirth personally.
Since Mayael is the engine that makes this deck run (arguably), why not offer her more protection in the form of Darksteel Plate or Shield of the Oversoul?
You also mentioned just above that you're seeking more sources for haste. What are your thoughts on Fires of Yavimaya and Ogre Battledriver? Or creatures like Blitz Hellion (which can only be answered by instants)? He doesn't stick around and give you board presence, but he comes back for more.
April 29, 2015 10:15 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #18
How about Aspect of Mongoose as a repeatable form of Mayael protection?
April 29, 2015 11:15 p.m.
Ah, I forgot to mention Aspect of Mongoose in my previous post about protection. I run that in my deck and no doubt it's saved Mayael a couple deaths. I'm with you Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor. It doesn't save her from a wrath, which i think the OP is concerned alot with, but in Rancor-style, it just goes back into your hand so it's not a complete waste.
April 30, 2015 6:46 a.m.
lemmingllama says... #20
Have you considered adding in Blasphemous Act? It is a boardwipe that may cost and your creatures are often large enough to survive it.
Eternal Dragon is a cool mana creature that can also be put into play using Mayael. Plus at worst it can be recurred and played.
Finally, have you looked at Sunscorch Regent yet? It doesn't get hit by Mayael, but it also grows very quickly and gives you life, or demands immediate removal. I've had some success using it.
May 5, 2015 8:45 a.m.
Blasphemous Act seems odd to me. It costs less the better off you are in not needing it. If you've got 8 creatures out in a Mayael deck and you're behind to where you need to wrath the board for , it sounds like something is terribly wrong. I would like it for wrathing at - when you're behind and can't seem to generate momentum to keep up.
May 5, 2015 9 a.m.
_SeriosSkies_ says... #22
It costs less for ALL creatures, not just your own. you fell behind, your opponents fields are loaded? Use A single red to Reset them and then use all your other free mana to rebuild your board state.
May 5, 2015 11:37 a.m.
My bad, good catch _SeriosSkies_. Thanks, that makes a LOT more sense! I gotta learn to read again.
May 5, 2015 12:35 p.m.
KindredDiscovery says... #24
@thewyzman: Lands go into the yard every time I crack a fetch. I'm anticipating acquiring the remaining 5 fetches in the near future, so cards like Crucible of Worlds will become more useful then. Not that they're not useful now.
I would like to run more protection, for sure. Darksteel Plate is on my short list to acquire. That said, it's rare that I lose a game because Mayael keeps getting killed. She's cheap, and actually doesn't draw all that much hate.
Haste is really nice, but not nice enough to run Fires of Yavimaya or Ogre Battledriver. My game plan just isn't aggro enough to reap the full benefits of cards like that. I'd rather use those slots for other utility.
@Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor: Ooh I like that. I need to do some playtesting.
@lemmingllama: Blasphemous Act used to be in the deck, and I rarely had to pay more than 1 or 2 mana for it. But lately I've been dialing back the number of board wipes (I used to run 13!) and it no longer meets my threshold for inclusion. It's hard to beat a good ol' Wrath of God. Oh, and surprisingly, most of my creatures usually didn't survive it. 13 toughness is a tall order. There was this one time I cast it with Vigor on the field though...good times. I think that was the only time I ever won with commander damage.
Eternal Dragon is one I had pulled out a while back and forgotten about. Now that I have ABUR duals, it may be time to try him out again.
Sunscorch Regent is super cool, and I want to play with him, but probably not in this deck. He just doesn't do anything I need in this build.
Thanks for all the comments guys!
May 7, 2015 6:46 p.m.
BornofBlood says... #25
its a good deck, but consider lowering the overall mana cost and putting in the planeswalker Xenagos
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #1
You don't want to play Iona or Colossus because it's not fun for your opponent, but you play both Eldrazi titans... Wut?
April 15, 2015 9:50 p.m.