In my playgroup, Doubling Season would get eliminated before my next upkeep, when most token-producing effects trigger. Once I play a Season, I am down 5 mana, meaning I have to have 12+ mana open to begin with, if I want to play Avenger of Zendikar or Abhorrent Overlord.

If I have to wait until my next turn to play a token maker, Season will be in the graveyard and me 1 turn behind.

@TheSquirrelLord - I believe you're incorrect about the combo. After the -1/-1 counters are placed on Puppeteer Clique the trigger is done resolving and state based actions would be checked. When this happens Puppeteer Clique has 0 toughness and would be placed in the graveyard. Then the Mazirek trigger would happen.

@TheSquirrelLord I believe evncrbch is right. The state based action would be checked when Puppeteer Clique came back with negative counters on him, so you would get the trigger and bring back something from your opponents graveyard, but then it would die with a toughness of zero and 2 negative 1/1 counters before Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest ability could resolve, resulting in no infinite +1/+1 on all the creatures you could bring back from the graveyards plus all your creatures. So, with that in mind, you would prefer to spend the 5 mana and try to go for the kill with Puppeteer Clique than for the long haul with Doubling Season if the opportunity presented itself that you could cast one or the other. Also, if you did not have the opportunity to cast one or the other but just Doubling Season, you think Doubling Season would earn you too much hate and end up making you lose the game, resulting in the potential benefits not outweighing the potential hate that would result. I can see that. Thanks for the input TheSquirrelLord.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Puppeteer Clique's 2 toughness.It would still work with Woodfall Primus, but yeah I feel really stupid at the moment...

All the Hate consideration is strictly specific to your playgroup. Mine don't really care about winning, we all just want a fun game. This definition of "fun" changes person to person, but we all are unified against infinite combos and immediately turn on anyone setting one up (we all play the anyway, just to draw out all removal if nothing else).

Doubling Season is not worthwhile. This is why:

1) Doubling Season is a card that instantly draws extreme hate - no matter what playgroup you are a part of, if someone drops a Doubling Season, you know they are about go do something bad, fast.

2) When I am evaluating instant hate cards such as Doubling Season, I evaluate their worth in my head. It works well with tokens, and naturally with our general. However, I only have about 8-9 cards that truly work well with it. Basic math tells us that the chance of us having a card in our deck that works well with Doubling Season is about 8.5% - those odds are not nearly enough for me.

3) It can potentially kill the persist combo. 'Nuff said.

4) It's expensive. My CMC is about 3-4 for the deck, because I try to have a full board state by turn 6-7 with potential for lethal by turn 7 at latest. The CMC of 5 is slow for me personally.

5) I simply don't see the value of it in this deck. Tokens are pawns to be sacrificed to our lord and savior Mazirek. I'm honestly fine with having only 4-6 on the board at the time, as this has always been enough to kill someone with lethal damage.

Doubling Season would work in a deck that is based around counters/tokens, however I don't consider this deck a pure token deck. Our tokens are more about utility - we only need enough to do what we need to do. There's no reason to flood the board with them, unless somehow we can do so easily. (EG. Avenger/Endrek plays)

@IpCrash3r well said!

However, @AKBZ EDH lists always need to be modified, depending on your playgroup. If you really feel that something would make your experience more fun, do not hesitate to give it a try.

Cool. Thanks for the input guys.

First post after most recent purge :D

Also, just wanted to say I love this deck and play it all the time. Good work!

Well if your the first I'll be the second and I'm happy to see that you took my suggestion to heart and added Hunting Wilds over Ranger's Path +1!

You need to add Altar of Dementia for you puppeteer clique combo, infinite mill and creatures galore!

Addressing your issue with creature less decks a little bit, have you considered running things that give your opponents tokens? It's understandable if you don't want to use valuable spaces for some of these, but it seems like it would at least be easy enough to fit a Forbidden Orchard into your land base.

@Apocolisp I really like the Altar of Dementia addition to CliqueCombo, a very strong win con.

I am not sure what to cut, but I will test it out and let you know what I find.

I used to have the Altar in here, however I didn't find it very useful. Like myself, most of my group run a single Eldrazi to make mill effects moot. It's a good sac engine though, and definitely a good choice, but not one I'll be adding.

Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord mayhaps? I must admit I'm a bit biased because Jarad's my boy, but he might fit well in a sac deck.

@DarthSpader This deck tends to like free-sac outlets (Viscera Seer,Ashnod's Altar,etc) because we can activate as many times as we like. As mentioned often, graveyards tend to be hated on a lot, so the +1/+1 for creatures is not outstanding. Also Jarad is a little bit color-picky. While that in itself is not terrible, all those factors put together make Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord a sub-par pick for me.

Good Deck, only thing i think you're missing is Smallpox and Innocent Blood.+1

Where is Sheoldred, Whispering One?

Hardened Scales is a god send in this deck because you don't just get a plus one plus one, your get two!

Phyrexian Obliterator seems super good in this deck.

What about Smokestack? If you are going tokens, you will have much less loss when compared to your opponents, all while getting Mazirek triggers galore (especially in multiplayer games)

I would drop Krosan Grip or maybe Putrefy for a Maelstrom Pulse given that its a solid choice for token removal but also has the added benefit of being able to remove most no lands.

Bloodthrone Vampire? Free sac outlet to combo with everything else, while buffing itself for the turn. Plus its cheap! Seems pretty easy to abuse in token deck. (Ex. Sac 5 creatures to Bloodthrone with Mazirek on the field, gain 5 +1/+1 counters and buff +10/+10 for turn to swing big.)

Pawn of Ulamog is nice because it both gives you tokens and mana.

I run Natural Order in my deck. It is extremely powerful and allows you to get your giant green creatures out as early as turn 4!

@ArchFline

Good call. I'm actually going to try to make room for this while keeping some of my other removal. I feel like the deck could definitely benefit from additional removal.

@IpCrash3r happy to help!

I'm not sure if your looking for draw power but a decent option for your deck could be Deathreap Ritual