Most people who run Nooze combo slot in Mikaeus, the Unhallowed because he already combos with Mike and Trike, and he offers a fair amount of utility outside of the combo. It gives you an alternate win condition if something happens to Nooze or Devourer.

You can then extend that one one step further by adding Woodfall Primus. Primus + Mike + a sac outlet blows up everyone else's noncreature boards.

Thanks, I will pick them up this weekend assuming my LGS has them.

Stitcher's Supplier is my new bff in my meren deck. & if you're running Bitterblossom, why not Ophiomancer?

cool deck!

Hi cujo253,

Thanks for the suggestions. Stitcher's Supplier falls under "self mill" and is generally considered a poor strategy in EDH. It is a dead draw at almost every point in the game and is not something that will either stop my opponent from winning or quickly position me for the win. Ophiomancer is an acceptable budget option for Bitterblossom. Mana cost is a major factor for me when I am selecting cards. I can naturally curve into a lock with Bitterblossom + Contamination, something you cannot do with Ophiomancer. One mana makes much greater difference than most people realize and keeping my overall avg cmc low allows me to play multiple strong spells per turn.

Thanks for the compliment capshanks01!

Hey beyonddevnull

Love the new update, especially Oppression ! I run it myself in Meren but i also have some love for Painful Quandary i know the CMC maybe to high for you but the effect is just to brutal i couldn't resist dumping that card :) My meren is inspired by your decklist in the very beginning of it but i always add something personal to it and just love it that some of those cards are now being introduced in your new update :) Keep them updates coming man !

PS: Do you play any form of tournaments with this list ?

Greetings, Gorbah

Thanks so much for the compliment Gorbah! Sorry for the lack of updates, I have actually been on a bit of a haitus from MTG for a handful of months. Painful Quandary is a card that I have mulled over a few times in the past. It is definately something that I can see operating well in specific metas, but as you stated the CMC is a bit high. I have grown wary of cards which have a high cmc that I would be casting for retail, compounded with the "or" makes the card a bit difficult for me to feel comfortable relying on. I am glad that you run cards that give your list a bit of personal flair. Even with powerful lists, commander to me is first and formost is about having fun.

I hope this does not dissapoint you, but do not play in any EDH tournaments (not even with my most competitive Chain Veil Teferi list). Even though I run decks that are more on the "competitive" side in terms of their power level, I was actually drawn to EDH to get away from the tournement magic scene that I find to be a bit stressful from a piloting standpoint. I am however known participate in high level play on the playEDH discord server. I periodically seek feedback on my lists from the competitive EDH community to make sure even a "budget" decesion is sound (IMO).

As a heads up, I have another even larger update coming in the next couple of weeks that includes more relatively recent cards. These changes are untested, but I like to keep my tappedout list in line with what I am currently running.

What are your thoughts about Smokestack ? Did u ever played it or is it a no go from the start ? Thanks for the previous reply to my comment!

Friendly Greetings,

Hi Gorbah,

It was in my original build for quite some time. I ended up cutting it. While it is a stax card, it takes a whole turn before it starts to do anything and I feel like it's pretty easy for other decks to play around or deal with before it would start to negatively impact them enough.

In a low power or mid power environment, for someone going heavier on tokens, I could see them getting a benefit from running this. Now that I'm thinking about it...a "mid power" aristocrats Meren deck would probably operate that way. I do not think it's the "optimal" build path which is the direction I am going for though.

Hey beyonddevnull,

Smokestack , I would really want to give it a try but my meta has 4 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice running at the moment and i don't want to see my soot counter get proliferated before my upkeep :D Thanks again for the reply , waiting for that larger update to land now! I'll speak you than mate. Good luck in the matches

I'm just coming back after a long break. Can you go over the combos?

Gorbah

• Part one of the large update is in.

Rezin3

• There is a "Combos / Win Condition" accordion block you can click on below the deck lists description. You should see a full walkthrough of the combo and lines to acheive them in there. If there is a specific part you are having difficulty with, you can let me know and I will do my best to explain.

Hey beyonddevnull, Sad to see nooze combo leaving the list .. but with the current cmc of 2.19 it might be a good call !

With Protean Hulk being the main wincon (and mike&ball) now isn't it better to drop 1 sac outlet like Bloodthrone Vampire and adding a Sylvan Safekeeper to protect your very precious Hulk from being targeted?

Thanks for the update ! Keep us up to date on how it plays mate !

Hi Gorbah

• Nooze and trike were pulled as all three combos centered around Mike so they we all vulnerable to his removal. I felt it was best to cut the cards dedicated to all but the strongest path and focus on making that combo more reliable and robust.

• Could you elaborate more (perhaps with a scenario) why you feel Sylvan Safekeeper would be needed? Typically we only put hulk into play if we already have a sac outlet in play so there would need to be a worry about something like Swords to Plowshares . When we sac Hulk, that is part of the outlets cost and the ability to respond does not appear until after that happens. Due to no priority being passed to an opponent, Hulk would still end up in our GY giving us the triggered ability.

Hey beyonddevnull,

Sorry that I only mentioned "Hulk" on my previous comment but what I actually ment was the Hulk combo pieces, as in general Mike & Ball!

My playgroup knows when Hulk hits the battlefield, bad shit is about to happen for them.. I even have people tutorring for instant exile spells asap so they can target a combo piece and knock it into exile.. With Sylvan Safekeeper coming into the board and than reanimating or hard casting Hulk you got your wincon protected!

Thanks for the clarifcation Gorbah!

I would to appologize for a typo in my second paragraph. There should have been a "no" in the Swords line. The corrected version should read:

• Could you elaborate more (perhaps with a scenario) why you feel Sylvan Safekeeper would be needed? Typically we only put hulk into play if we already have a sac outlet in play so there would no need to be a worry about something like Swords to Plowshares . When we sac Hulk, that is part of the outlets cost and the ability to respond does not appear until after that happens. Due to no priority being passed to an opponent, Hulk would still end up in our GY giving us the triggered ability.

• You are correct that Sylvan Safekeeper would protect the Mike/Ball part from instant speed creature removal. The combo is also vulnerable at that state to instant speed graveyard removal as well. When Ball hits the yard, the Undying trigger from Mike goes on the stack. Your opponents would have priority and that is an exploitable weakness as well. As a deck brewer you would have to make the decesion if you would rather be able to shut off 1/2 the combo's weakness by adding another required card or run more sac outlets to increate the ease as which you could go off to begin with. For me, I prefer the sac outlets. In a create removal scenario, I would be willing to just sac mike and attempt the combo again. I feel comfortable that we have enough reanimation magic to do so. My biggest worry is about graveyard hate as there is very little we can do about that.

Gorbah

• I had another thought...I don't think I would consider cutting a sac outlet, but one option could be dropping Magus of the Abyss for Sylvan Safekeeper . I feel like this might be a meta call, but that's roughly the path I would take. I might consider giving that a go depending on how my testing goes.

Magus of the Abyss is a nice stax piece ! The Abyss on a stick, I have much love for this card and imo i would still cut a sac outlet! U run plenty enough of them now, and with Meren's recur it's easy to just bring them back!

I feel your fear for graveyard hate.. My meta runs it aswell since thats the only "weakness" of Meren, but in the last games we played my Riftsweeper has saved my ass multiple times ! Even bringing back Spore Frog from my exiled graveyard ( Bokuja Bog ) I just love that little amazing creature !! Why aren't you running him mate ? He is fantastic against combat based decks, Drop a frog and they just fight another opponent and leave you alone :)

Ow! and I also run a Defense Grid , wich is pretty nice against those blue counters waiting to counter a combo piece :)

Hi Gorbah,

I will be keeping Safekeeper in mind for sure as a I test. As for Defense Grid , I am not sure how I feel about it. My biggest concern would be that it also stops the control player from blocking a person who is pure combo. How has it worked for yourself? What would I cut for it?

As for Spore Frog , I see no use for it in a multiplayer setting. You only get one Meren trigger a round. If more than one person choses to attack you, it does not help. There is a more detailed explaination on why spore frog does not belong in Meren in my "Notable Exclusions" section.

So much YES! This is the list I have been waiting for, amazing primer man.

Will any cards from Modern Horizons be added?

Love you deck! Any update for Aug 2020 please advise :)