I agree with Frank_Glascock that Prowling Serpopard is not really pulling it's weight. I play in a control heavy meta and I rarely tutor for it. So that one goes out for Mindslicer . In my opinion as well Mindslicer is a ruthless card and much better against control then the more passive Prowling Serpopard

The other one that I've cut is Necrotic Ooze again, rarely pulled it's weight and often he turned into a sakura tribe elder... Not what I want to do for 4 mana. Chosen to add another copy of Plaguecrafter in the form of Merciless Executioner . My playgroup is really after removing plaguecrafter from the game ASAP. So another copy of it will make sure I can do my thing a bit more.

I don't agree with you, Frank_Glascock, on Destructor Dragon . At first I was a bit sceptic as well, but it is recurable removal that goes after anything that is not a creature. At first I thought why not Woodfall Primus , but 8 experience is just harder to get back than the 6. Especially since my playgroup loves to keep meren off the table...

Sol Ring I rarely have the feeling that I miss it.

Savra, Queen of the Golgari is really performing well. She is almost our Grave Pact since we dont run that card or Dictate of Erebos . But recurable.

Agent of Erebos is amazing in any Meren deck. Almost any deck plays some way of recursion and he is an all-star at keeping graveyards empty. I often dump him early game in my Survival of the Fittest to get him out of my graveyard later on.

Final Parting is a really decent tutor in this deck, cause it basically let's you get 2 creatures at the cost of 2.5 mana per creature. Wich is a bit more than a Demonic Tutor , but the fact that it's 2 tutors on 1 slot, I think is pretty amazing.

Control_Train, I have a hard time agreeing with all your cut's for WAR. New Lilly and Bontu are amazing for our decks! But I don't think Massacre Girl will perform that well. With the amount of Meren removal I'm experiencing, I'm quite reluctant in playing here and probably wiping my own meren off the battlefield.

Soul of the Harvest seems like an pretty okay card. Haven't got it out that often yet. If I would cut him it's probably for a Fleshbag Marauder . And play all 3 of them.

Guardian Project seems like a wrong idea to take out. It draws soooo much cards and at a 4 mana investment I'm quite happy with it.

Casualties of War is amazing and it went directly into the deck.

Other cards that I would like to discuss with the both of you are: Garruk, Apex Predator Old face smasher has been in my deck for quite some time now. And especially with WAR out he performs really well. His mana cost is most of the time not really the problem and if our deck performs well by the time he hits there won't be much creatures to deal with him.

Kokusho, the Evening Star quite soon I found out that playing meren makes me a target. And when you are a target your life goes down. Kokusho fills this gap and get's me my life back. The fact that he is a flyer (next to the dragon, we play zero flyers) is quite nice as well. He really was the card I was missing in this deck and won me the game already a few times.

Sheoldred, Whispering One Often people already spent most of their removal when she hits the table and that means they have trouble dealing with her. She is an absolute all-star and if not dealt with most of the time results in a win.

Would love to get your imput as well!

Would Bazaar of Baghdad have a place on this list?

Control_Train, what is usually the first creature for which you tutor? Ripwater said he usually gets Sakura-Tribe Elder .

I go back and forth on Lightning Greaves . Is spot removal on Meren an issue in your meta and do you find Sylvan Safekeeper sufficient? I find myself tutoring for it first as my opponents hold up instant speed removal for Meren.

Control_Train, as I play Meren I appreciate your list more and more. There are a few cards I question.

Could Sol Ring be better in the deck than Pitiless Plunderer ? Early game Sol Ring is the only option. It gets Meren out two turns earlier. It allows for multiple early turn casts. Pitiless Plunderer never sees the field before Meren.

Midgame, assuming Pitiless Plunderer is cast after Meren, how often do you see it generate mana that turn? Meren would have to return a creature to the battlefield or you would have to cast a one mana creature assuming the fifth land drop. Meanwhile, Sol Ring is generating mana every turn it is cast include a net positive of one colorless mana the turn it is cast.

Late mid game and late game Pitiless is the clear winner. Colored mana that can will be generated in bunches and stored for big turns finally beats the consistent colorless Sol Ring mana.

The argument to include a creature in a deck that has more means to tutor creatures (more so with the inclusion of Survival of the Fittest ) than artifacts is also suspect. That assumes Pitiless Plunderer is a common tutor target. My strong suspicion is that you rarely if ever tutor this creature. Am I wrong in thinking this?

I made a mistake concerning Pitiless Plunderer . I thought it generated mana from creatures etb. This would increase the chances it generates mana on the turn it is cast. I still think Sol Ring is the superior card for this deck.

Control_Train, do you think Krav, the Unredeemed could be Soul of the Harvest ?

Definitely not ignoring you guys, just been very busy with finals etc. I'll try not to miss anything in my reply.

Sol Ring, Greaves, and Seal are all fine additions. I don't personally like playing too many artifacts because in my meta I find myself using Bane of Progress a LOT, and having targets for it myself isn't great, with non-creature non-lands being the hardest things to recur in the deck, meaning that I won't get nearly as much value out of them as I'd like. Sylvan Safekeeper is my only direct protection for Meren, yea, but I've never run into a game where I couldn't cast my commander. The deck still functions without her, just a bit slower. I ran Seal for a long time, but after enough situations where I'm behind and needed an answer then and couldn't get it because I didn't have a way to draw a card after I used Seal, I cut it.

Prowling Serpopard is a must have for my meta; almost every deck I play against is blue and going turn 3 Snake into turn 4 Meren is an unbeatable line of play. It's certainly a flex slot, because if you aren't encountering counterspells in every single game you play it can be a dead card at times. Agent is getting cut for Modern Horizons, and since I added Bojuka Bog I do find that I don't need Agent as much. For a long time it felt necessary, but with Bog and the need for cuts, it's gotta go.

Destructor Dragon I haven't found the will to cut yet, despite being a bit overcosted as you say, but it gets around Torpor Orb, which is hugely relevant in my meta. With as much spot removal as I have though, it may be time to look at it getting cut. It has never felt bad to resolve or recur, but it could be better given the right thing to cut it for.

Savra is a lifesaver against aggro decks, and part of the reason I'm willing to run Chainer because he's pretty life intensive. Final Parting was a strict upgrade to Jarad's Orders, and has always pulled it's weight.

Living Plane/Minister of Pain is a fine set of cards to play, if that's where you want to go with the deck. That's a little too brutal for my meta, but by all means play it. You could cut Final Parting if it hasn't felt good for you, but it's always been a nice topdeck for me.

I used to run Mindslicer too, and may add it in again soon, it's just this card that produces very weird play patterns and is only really good when you're ahead on board, and win more cards aren't exactly what my deck needed. It's definitely playable and definitely powerful, though, so don't be afraid to test it.

Necrotic Ooze for me has always pulled it's weight, but again if something isn't working for you feel free to cut it. Ooze feels like a safety valve for me and has singlehandedly won me a game before when I couldn't stick Meren. Woodfall Primus also goes infinite with Mikeaus and I didn't want THAT easy of a win swimming around in my deck, because if it's there I'll use it.

Massacre Girl is an "Oh Shit" button for me. It's tutorable off of Hulk (which is huge) and it almost always just cleans the board up entirely. Losing your own Meren isn't ideal, obviously, but in that regard it's not different than Damnation. The tutorable, recurrable board wipe, especially with as many creatures up the toughness chain as I run, makes her at the very least a Toxic Deluge for 4-5 almost every time, even more depending on the matchup and board state. I've been in love with it, but if it isn't working for you feel free to cut it (as I'll say a lot lol.)

Soul of the Harvest was good, just not good enough for me. It's still a fine card to play. I just don't like it. 6 cmc isn't where I want my draw engines. Guardian Project was pretty good for me, but it just never felt good, so I cut it for that reason.

Garruk seems like a solid addition, especially with WAR in the format now, I just don't have a slot because I see almost zero planeswalkers in my playgroup(s). We have one superfriends deck, but a single Garruk isn't gonna stem that tide by itself. I'd almost run Elderspell at that point to ultimate Liliana faster but that might be a bit too gimmicky lol.

Kokusho seems like a solid card. I play against Kokusho a lot and it's amazing for other decks, so it should probably be good here too. I just don't see myself using it that much since I have Savra for life gain and other things for win conditions.

Glad Sheoldred has been working out for you! I've been testing it myself and haven't been ultimately overwhelmed, but I'm gonna give it some time to see if I can really start to see it shine.

Bazaar is probably fine in this deck, but I would definitely not go out of your way to spend whatever ungodly amount of money they cost these days to get one if you don't already own one. I don't ever see card disadvantage as useful, even if it's a good discard outlet.

What I tutor for every game is very different. I have to play to the board state, but if I had to guess it's probably Rec Sage or Bane of Progress because of the sheer amount of artifacts and enchantments I encounter in every game that HAVE to be answered. Plunderer for me generates way more mana than Sol Ring every could, and for that reason I personally wouldn't make that direct swap. I would say add Sol Ring if you want, but Plunderer generates an unfair amount of mana for me any time it hits the table, and for that reason I don't think I'll ever cut it unless they print something even more broken.

Krav for me is way too good to cut, because it's a sacrifice outlet AND a card draw engine in one. Soul of the Harvest is a fine card to play if you want to make that swap though.

Any reason to not run Survival other than Exorbitant foil?

this may sound a bit dumb, but is there any point in running snow covered lands other than the reason that they look and sound cool, or can i just replace them with regular lands because i don't want to pay for more lands when i can just use the ones i already have

Ilnez - there isn’t really, you trade haste and multiple activations for easier recursion; I’m going to be making the switch soon

@Fuzen - there is zero reason to use snow lands other than that I’m extra

M19, MH1, and M20 updates are live along with primer updates and changelog!

Hi, I see you running tooth and nail and avenger of zendikar, but missing craterhoof behemoth, its almost all the time win con, cast both of them in late game.

I am running Tooth and Nail but have never run Avenger of Zendikar. I also don't run Craterhoof because I've never needed it. I used various other things before Dread Presence, but now that's the primary win condition with Field of the Dead as a backup. I don't run Craterhoof because while I can make a lot of tokens or just play a lot of creature spells, I'm typically trying to keep the board relatively clear and I'm sacrificing my own things for value a lot. Getting Craterhoof back with Meren is also a waste of her ability, unless it's to hand, and I get above seven experience quite fast.

Craterhoof is also every green deck ever's win condition, and I don't really want that for this deck.

Thanks for the updates Control_Train.

You ought to be running 3 Swamp 3 Snow-Covered Swamp and 3 Forest 3 Snow-Covered Forest – not because you're extra lol but because it helps turn Field of the Dead on sooner.

Ruggley - yea I realized that after watching titanshift play snow covered basics for the same reason haha. They’re in there now and Field is almost always live on turn 7 if I draw it as long as I have some ramp early game.

Excellent take on Meren. Would you say this is multiplayer capable? I was looking to incorporate some cards into my own but not sure if I should since yours has synergy with the main game plan you explained here.

Like, is it worth playing World shaper without Sylan Safekeeper or Bontu or Dread Presence?

Thank you for the positive feedback, I’m glad you liked the deck! I play almost exclusively multiplayer and I would build it somewhat differently if it were geared towards one on ones. Feel free to experiment with your own choices and make the deck your own, this is simply my version and you can use it as is or as an outline, whichever you prefer. It’s simply here for reference :)

I think World Shaper is definitely good enough without the support cards for comboing with it, and I’ve actually been thinking of cutting Dread Presence anyways because it’s rather lackluster without World Shaper and Urborg both. Safekeeper is also on my potential cut list, but less so than some other cards I’m currently looking at cutting.

That being said World Shaper does get significantly better if you have more self mill or more ways to abuse sacrificing your lands (Titania as a way to capitalize off the sacrificing of lands is decent enough on her own I feel). Hope this helps some and I’m always around to answer questions or discuss ideas!

Meren Multiplayer

Here is my version, I am two or so cards off and will need to update when I go through it again. I used to run Ulvenwald Hydra to tutor for lands such as Urborg, Cabal, Bojuka, Phyrexian Tower, High Market or mana fix and help defend against flyers. I've found Golgari has has isues with evasion. I don't know if running World Shaper is worth it though since I don't have many sacrifice land cards. Although, the mill 3 every attack is quite nice which is what I liked. I also am not sure if Cradle is worth due to low creature on board count except for when Izoni comes out. I'd hate to be blown out when I sac some lands with Bontu without World Shaper around. He may not get much use for me at certain times. My curve is high so I like to run a few more lands as well. It has played out very nicely however and sometimes I win games without even casting Meren once. I've been playing her wrong the whole time trying to cast her asap and build up experience only to get set back and disrupted. I wait to play her and only when I can get a great engine going or when I need something back in hand.

Massacre girl and Primal growth are out but I don't currently know what I'm using instead. I play Demon of Dark Schemes because both share the same role albeit girl wipes the board quite effectively at times. I also play a very small creature steal package with Primordial and Demon.

Edited my list, I have Greater Good(Draw cards and discard lands for Shaper) and Mogis's Marauder(lowered curve and helps push damage in) instead of Primal Growth and Massacre Girl

Out of curiosity, were you aware that Squirrel Nest is an infinite combo with the already included Earthcraft? netting you infinite squirrels to sac for some reason, or turn sideways for fatal. It is one of my favorite win conditions and it is in my Meren deck. :p I apologize in advance for stealing World Shaper, not sure how I missed it, but that is some killer tech. Thanks!

Maybe im just stupid, but im not seeing how the win con works, how do you get enough lands in your graveyard to trigger either dread presence of field of the dead in order to kill three opponents? Im just not seeing it.

thewrush - thanks for the comment, I'm glad you like the deck! Blocking flyers is definitely a problem I've had and Ulvenwald is just a good card all around. If you've got creatures with more than one or two power to use with Greater Good then I think it's definitely a great card in the deck for many reasons, I've just never personally used it.

Scytec - I am aware, I just don't play infinite combos in any of my decks because I don't need them, but I'm glad you like World Shaper! Thanks for the comment!

stavie131 - the old win con was basically just use Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, World Shaper, and Dread Presence to deal enough damage to everyone to win, but anymore I just use either Field of the Dead or Scute Swarm to win, and Finale of Devastation helps with that. You could certainly add something like Craterhoof or some other combat focused card to help the wins come faster, or do something entirely different like a combo of your own or something else wacky. With Meren, if it's creature based in some way, it's probably viable, so play around. Thanks for the comment, and you're definitely not stupid!

I've been eyeing this deck for a while, so I guess its about time I commented. I remember you considering Opposition Agent , since it has some pretty absurd words on it. If you do find space for it, what do you think about its interaction with Maralen of the Mornsong ? I haven't had enough of a chance to test out how easy it is to stop her from helping opponents, (what with sac outlets and all), but I feel like the absolute lockdown these two can bring is worth it. Plus, they can both be fetched by Hulk. Also, since you've mentioned how useful Liliana, Defiant Necromancer is for making opponents discard, what are you thoughts on Mindslicer ?

NazoPureChaos - Opposition Agent and Maralen are extremely strong together, and with a sac outlet you're right you could get rid of Malaren if an opponent removed Opposition Agent or if you needed to draw yourself. I would be interested to find out how Underrealm Lich interacts with Malaren, because if Lich lets you draw cards even with Malaren in play, then you might be on to some extremely powerful one-sided synergy. Either way, I think Malaren is a good combo with Opposition Agent if you're going to play one or the other anyways. I'm not sure Agent will find a place in my personal list, but it's definitely a strong card worth playing, and more so if your playgroup tends to be heavy on tutor effects.

Mindslicer is an absolute slam dunk in this deck, but I'll be honest I mostly cut it to trim the power level of the deck a bit. This is definitely a stax-y sort of shell, but for my playgroup I found Mindslicer to be one of the most oppressive cards that didn't technically advance my own plan in any way, and could hinder me in bad situations, so it got the axe for me personally. If you want to play it though it is extremely powerful and I would recommend trying it out at least.

Thanks for the comment, I'm glad you like the deck!