The Bloodhall Season 1 - Dragonlord Silumgar
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 47 | 30 COMMENTS | 11276 VIEWS | IN 11 FOLDERS
PhotogenicParasympathetic says... #3
For draw, cut Dreamstone Hedron, which is simply not as good as the smaller versions, and cut Fact or Fiction. I know, I know, commander staple. But when was the last time you resolved a Fact or Fiction for exactly what you needed? The ramp to replace them should be small, since you've already got several larger pieces. I'd suggest Fellwar Stone, Dimir Signet, Dimir Cluestone, Sol Ring, Thought Vessel, Wayfarer's Bauble, etc. The classics.
For Spelltwine I'd drop Chancellor of the Spires, because it's a worse Spelltwine - sure, it gets you a creature too, but it's pretty overcosted for it's effect. For the same buck, your Diluvian Primordial gets a way bigger bang. For Mind's Dilation, maybe cut Commandeer, which also just seems very expensive for its effect. Sure, sometimes you'll steal someone's gigantic Genesis Wave or whatever, but most of the time I don't think you'll get a spell worth that much investment.
Also, add Gonti, Lord of Luxury, Nezumi Graverobber, and Perplexing Chimera, because these are powerful cards. Graverobber is definitely the highest priority of the group, since it steals things and doubles as graveyard hate if needed. The secrecy offered by Gonti, as well as his ability to mess up "Tutor to the top of your library" effects (oh, and also Sensei's Divining Top) is well worth the one-shot ability. Plus, you can cast the stolen card at anytime, even if Gonti dies! Chimera is probably the least good of these, because even though it stalls your opponents while they try to play around it, once you use it, it can be used against you. Still, probably worth a spot, since it stops most combo decks in their tracks.
In exchange, I'd suggest dropping Memory Plunder, which is nice, but you've got many other cards that get the same effect, at a better rate, Coffin Queen, which isn't as effective as Graverobber, and maybe Aura Thief, since you don't really have reliable ways to kill him, and since most of the time, his effect won't be huge, unless you happen to be playing a prison deck with Propaganda etc.
And you're running more than enough tutors. You're playing other people's decks - what do you need to search your OWN deck for?
December 2, 2016 9:31 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #4
PhotogenicParasympathetic, thank you again!
Dreamstone Hedron: This is actually in the deck as ramp first before draw. Should I still take it out?
Fact or Fiction: Yeah, this card is more for decks that are going to be doing a lot of stuff instant-speed. I can take it out for Dimir Signet (I already have Sol Ring.)
Chancellor of the Spires: I guess it's kind of a meta call, but there are quite a few creatureless or spellslinger decks in my meta, so I feel like I can't really have too many ways to steal instants and sorceries in this deck. Same for Memory Plunder. That said, Spelltwine's advantage of recurring my own spells doesn't really interest me, beyond the card advantage factor.
Commandeer: This is definitely an expensive card, I won't disagree there, but it is my only answer to a nasty card when I'm tapped out if I got two other blue cards in my hand. So it being on theme is nice. I'm still on the fence about Mind's Dilation because I cut all the cards that cast spells from libraries or hands without searching or looking first, because otherwise, I could get literal nothing. With MD, I guess the fact that it should trigger lots and lots of times makes it better, but I just don't know still. I think I'm going to put it on the maybeboard.
Gonti, Lord of Luxury: My previous statement addresses why I'm not really a fan of this card.
Nezumi Graverobber: This was in an earlier iteration of the deck, but ultimately got cut because it cost so much per creature recurred, and it can only get creatures, which I have plenty of ways to do as is.
Perplexing Chimera: This feels like it would just make the game complicated, like putting in a Conjured Currency. It also seems like it wouldn't really trade that often because who would play a good spell into him?
Coffin Queen: This might be smaller in scope than Graverobber, but there aren't really any loops to jump through, unlike with Graverobber needing to flip and then pay 2 more mana per creature recurred.
Aura Thief: I really don't like this card, but options for stealing/copying enchantments are pretty limited, so this will have to do.
Thank you again! I'm gonna drop Fact or Fiction for Dimir Signet, add Mind's Dilation and Nezumi Graverobber to the maybeboard, and continue to look for a draw card to take out (probably for Everflowing Chalice, I've been dying to find a place for it!)
December 2, 2016 5:54 p.m.
Hey, I'd consider replacing Coffin Queen with Dominating Licid. It's not a card I see often, but it can be extremely hard to deal with whereas the Queen is fairly simple to remove.
December 2, 2016 6:27 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #6
dlamars, Thank you for the comment! I think the biggest issue is that responding to their abilities with killing them does totally different things. While Dominating Licid's ability does nothing if it its killed in response, Coffin Queen will still bring it's target back. That and having a commander that can steal creatures makes stealing creatures less needed.
That said, the Licid's ability to change from an enchantment to a creature and back to dodge removal seems interesting... I'll put it on the maybeboard for now.
Thanks!
December 2, 2016 7:04 p.m.
Megalomania says... #7
Have you considered using Corrupted Conscience? It fits the theme and I have found it to be quite effective in the decks that i've used it in.
Thada Adel, Acquisitor seems like a better commander for the deck. If not, you might want to try it on your mainboard to help you steal mana rocks from your opponents' deckd.
As for ramp, I suggest you give Dark Ritual a try. It doesn't look much but a sudden burst of mana is sometimes all you need to get momentum.
Also, Sol Ring is listed under your mana base and not in your ramp. Just pointing it out 'coz people will probably keep suggesting it until they see it listed under the ramp spells. Lol.
December 2, 2016 8:02 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #8
Megalomania, thank you very much for taking the time to comment!
Corrupted Conscience does fit the theme, and it is a sweet card... but I am not sold on it. I think the reason for that is that I can't really afford to run a lot of cards that only steal creatures, because my commander already does that. However, adding infect is definitely worth an extra mana over Control Magic.
Thada Adel, Acquisitor was in a previous version of the deck, but was taken out to make room for other cards. (Having her as the commander is not an option because I want to have Reanimate-style cards in the deck too, so both blue and black pretty much have to be in this deck.) Looking back, I think she is one of the stronger aikido cards in my colors, so I should definitely add her back. Any suggestions for a remove?
Well, the reason I need ramp more than usual (usually I don't put more than 5 cards for ramp in my decks) is because my curve is pretty high in this deck, and quite a few cards require additional mana to do their thing, so this is one of the times where a sudden burst isn't going to do enough.
Oops! I meant to have it on both, thanks for pointing that out!
December 2, 2016 8:19 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #9
I ended up dropping Burnished Hart, which requires a lot of mana just to ramp by two, for Thada Adel, Acquisitor, which can steal all the Sol Rings! So that should fix all my problems related to ramp while also giving me more Aikido!
December 3, 2016 4:25 a.m.
hosshughes says... #10
+1. I feel like Lazav, Dimir Mastermind is aching to be in here.
December 3, 2016 5:45 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #11
hosshughes, thanks! Lazav could be cool, but I dont think I have enough ways to make cards gwt put into the graveyard aside from board wipes..
December 3, 2016 8:04 a.m.
Okay, here be the comment ye hath been waitin' fer.
Right off the bat, your deck's cmc is really high, so some of mi suggestions are going to be aiming to improve ramp or drop spells I think are too expensive for what they do.
I'm not a fan of Timesifter, Dreamstone Hedron, the 5cmc+ counterspells (some are fine, but too many makes it hard to stay reactive), and Chancellor of the Spires (seems a bit slow).
Cards I'd highly recommend are:
Nezumi Graverobber (and no this isn't just because it's a rat) is a great way to start stealing cards. It's ability allows you to stay reactive, burgling at the end of people's turn once he flips.
Sower of Temptation is a relatively inexpensive and powerful tool for theft.
Coalition Relic is a cheap method of ramp that can pump out one colored mana every turn or two colored mana every other turn.
Redirect also seems like a "counterspell" that could help this deck lower its cmc.
Just ideas, I'll be perusing around for more. Have fun Plagiarizeing and stealing.
December 11, 2016 10:31 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #13
Octrate, buddy! Thanks for the comment and the invested time, as always!
Yeah the cmc is definitely higher than I'm used to, so even though I limited myself to only playing cards at cmc 7 or less, im forced to run more ramp than usual, and only ramp that ramps by 2 or more too.
Timesifter is one of those weird cards that I can't cut until I lower the average cmc, but until then, I'm prepared to abuse it to hell!
Dreamstone Hedron has been underperforming lately, but i honestly think it was because I drew it at weird times, so it may prove to be indispensable, but we shall see.
Gather Specimens would be the first to go of them, but I dont feel right taking out these responsive cards, mostly because I don't have much in the way of ensuring I keep a good board state once I have one. The fact that they can also help me get there seems to push them over the top into "I can't afford to cut these cards" territory.
Chancellor of the Spires is by no means efficient, but stealing permanents is so much more commonplace that I have even resorted to cards that cost a lot. Plus, being able to Necromancy it out seems like fun lol
I've played Nezumi Graverobber as you undoubtedly remember. However between having to pay at least 9 mana before reanimatin the first creature, each creature past that costs 5 mana to reanimate, and the fact that it can only reanimate creatures puts this card nearly into not worth playing. I just can't see him being better than Reanimate, Animate Dead, Necromancy, Coffin Queen, Beacon of Unrest, Chainer, Dementia Master, Geth, Lord of the Vault, or Sepulchral Primordial, so with all the card draw in the deck, is a 9th copy of Reanimate really worth playing it?
Sower of Temptation is fine, but I've tried as much as possible to avoid effects that can turn Murders into 2-for-1's. My commander is the only card that falls under that, but it's the best commander for the deck. However, running a card that has the same weaknesses as the card everyone sees before the game begins makes it even worse.
Coalition Relic is a solid card. In all honesty, it will probably replace Dreamstone Hedron if I take it out in the future. Thanks!
As much as I love cards that Redirect or copy spells on the stack, I've always felt it's too situational. Luckily, Insidious Will works in both situations and more, so its definitely playable. Do you think I'm being unnecessarily apprehensive?
Is Plagiarize another suggestion? Because it and Notion Thief could be or might not be thematic additions to draw cards, but idk how effective they are.
And thank you again!
December 11, 2016 1:09 p.m.
chaosumbreon87 says... #14
In:
Phyrexian metamorph, shared fate (mess with the game), copy artifact, copy enchantment, Decree of Pain
Out:
Everflowing chalice, magus of the future, future sight
Just suggestions though
December 19, 2016 1:10 p.m.
I already have a Silumgar deck (currently rebuilding it) with half of your list. Nice deck !
I'll probably take some more inspiration here. +1 Upvote. ;)
May 15, 2017 7:14 p.m. Edited.
MagicalHacker says... #16
chaosumbreon87, thanks for the feedback! Phyrexian Metamorph, along with other fantastic ways to clone cards, such as Clever Impersonator, Copy Artifact, and Copy Enchantment, just don't fit with the deck because I would rather use cards that steal, since they're more effective and there are plenty of them to use. Shared Fate would let me cast opponents' cards, but it would prevent me from being able to draw my cards that let me steal cards, and I find that trade to be hurtful rather than helpful. Decree of Pain has always been either too much mana or not enough effect in my experience.
Everflowing Chalice along with Sisay's Ring and Ur-Golem's Eye are just ways to ramp by or more, and if we ever get better ramp options for that in these colors, you can bet I will be dropping them for those. I think I'll probably drop Coalition Relic first before any other ramp spell, but the three previously mentioned ones are next in line. Future Sight and Magus of the Future are a lot better than I thought they would be when I played with them for the first time, as I was able to draw a card whenever I played ANY card, as long as it was the one card on the top of my library. In a way, it let me generate a huge board presence without losing card advantage in my hand, and it only gets crazier due to the fetchlands and Sensei's Divining Top. If you don't find them that good, I would highly recommend playing with them, because they have the possibility to absolutely blow you away with value!
May 16, 2017 11:10 a.m.
Personally I like Liliana of the Dark Realms. She gives me ramp, shuffle effect and sometimes removal if needed. Liliana Vess is also a great tutor. Jace, the Mind Sculptor is another powerful one that allow top deck manipulation and card selection. I'm also playing Jace, Unraveler of Secrets and Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver. I still want to say that Clever Impersonator is worth it. Copying things like Propaganda or the best creature on the field is always nice. He can even copy planeswalkers. Copy Karn Liberated and exile the original :P
May 16, 2017 1:01 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #18
Iron_Cube, thank you for the kind words! I'm glad that this deck has helped you at least in part with your rebuilding of your Silumgar deck!
In my playgroup, people tend to kill planeswalkers as soon as possible, which is problematic in a multiplayer format, so I tend to not include planeswalkers unless I'm happy only getting two activations of their plus abilities, which I haven't found useful for any of my decks. Clever Impersonator could be good, but with all the effects of stealing available to me, why go for copying instead? I'm not running Confiscate and friends either, but I would run those cards over Clever Impersonator in order to catapult myself farther ahead than my opponents. With regards to planeswalkers, I'm glad that my commander can deal with them so easily. Plopping him down and stealing a planeswalker to ultimate it right away is one of my favorite things to do.
May 16, 2017 1:48 p.m.
chaosumbreon87 says... #19
I guess this is fair enough, it is your deck after all. No amount of my suggestions should override your thoughts on the matter.
I do have to suggest Ashiok and notion thief though. Ashiok for obvious reasons and notion thief steals draws if that is a thing.
I generally dont use magus of future sight or future sight itself, unless i'm going for the full helm top combo. To each their own.
May 16, 2017 10:19 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #20
I keep coming back to Notion Thief because I want to use it here so much, but I think I'm finally going to add it thanks to your suggestion! And if you have a deck with lots of ramp, just try Future Sight for a couple of ganes, and I dont think you will be disappointed!
May 17, 2017 10:30 a.m.
sleeper_agent007 says... #21
Nice list. I have a Lazav deck and my staple aikido cards in dimir are Thada Adel, Acquisitor (which you run) and Praetor's Grasp. These are very strong ramp options in our colors and Grasp is criminally underplayed.
May 2, 2018 4:38 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #22
sleeper_agent007 very cool! I used to have those two in here, but then I dropped all the library aikido cards that made me still pay mana to cast them. That said, I understand why people still like them though!
May 2, 2018 5:01 p.m.
sleeper_agent007 says... #23
I understand. The thing is, assuming no other ramp in both examples, Thada and Grasp could come down on turn 3 and give you access to 5 mana on turn 4. (Or truthfully probably 6+mana depending on your ramp package) this could also potentially get you out of poor draws assuming you don't draw into land 4 or 5 on curve.
Meanwhile Acquire is a turn 5 play that ties up all your land for the turn. It doesn't really help you speed up the early game which is where dimir tends to struggle. By this point your opponents are going to start dropping some threats and effects from cards like Aquire are not worth the higher mana investment imho. You are probably better off playing a Gilded Lotus every time.
Just my two cents though. I feel where ya coming from and sometimes it's a matter of card preference.
May 10, 2018 2:53 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #24
sleeper_agent007, I could actually see Thada and Grasp replacing some mana ramp options because of the fact that they could easily grab Sol Ring. However, Acquire is much better than both of those for this reason: if I wanted to grab a card with the highest impact possible, that is most likely going to be a high cost card, potentially 6 mana or more, so I would rather pay than for X=6. The only exception to that rule is when opponents aren't playing any artifacts worth stealing with either Thada or Acquire, so the point is irrelevant. Fortunately, the "early game" doesn't really matter, as "struggling in the early game" is one of the best strategic choices I have seen if the goal is to be the winner of the game.
I also do see where you are coming from as well, and I think you hit the nail on the head when you said it comes down to card preference. I could definitely see replacing a few of the ramp cards with those cards in the future.
May 10, 2018 5:13 p.m.
sleeper_agent007 says... #25
Yeah I hear ya. It depends on your meta too. If your opponents are often running big game artifacts, then Acquire will do so some work. It is also depends on the build I suppose. I have since added a fair amount of 2-mana rocks in my Lazav deck so turn 2 rock, turn 3 grasp + Sol Ring into turn 4 Mind's Dilation (or any other 6+ mana spell) usually makes me pretty happy.
I rarely encounter 6+ mana artifacts worth stealing in my meta though so maybe that's why I am leaning towards the cheaper variants.
Podma101 says... #1
Perhaps Mind's Dilation and Gonti, Lord of Luxury? Both give nice ways of stealing!
November 29, 2016 10 p.m.